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Old 05-11-2019, 12:33 AM
 
Location: Houston
22,388 posts, read 11,521,022 times
Reputation: 9003

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Why do Americans always believe they are on the right side but China, Canada, Mexico, Europe, Japan, Korea...are the ones that take advantages? America is the victim of the world?
Outside of America, do people believe such a claim?
Voluntary transactions are only made if both sides think they are benefitting from it. There does not have to be losing nations when it comes to trade. Let me suggest googling Law of Comparative Advantage.
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Old 05-11-2019, 12:33 AM
 
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
10,484 posts, read 8,691,274 times
Reputation: 12137
Trade wars are NOT good for consumers. They ARE generally good for domestic producers.
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Old 05-11-2019, 03:39 AM
 
6,684 posts, read 6,559,459 times
Reputation: 2381
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Voluntary transactions are only made if both sides think they are benefitting from it. There does not have to be losing nations when it comes to trade. Let me suggest googling Law of Comparative Advantage.
America is the one who wants to change the status quo and break the equilibrium. In the real business world, such a man usually takes the blame even if he is reasonable.

I also have the feeling that the trade war is not just about economy. In Trump administration, some top politicians truly want to contain China at all cost. They don't want a win-win situation but need China to slow down or even fail. The Chinese leaders certainly know that too.
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Old 05-11-2019, 04:00 AM
 
4,568 posts, read 3,576,701 times
Reputation: 7324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Why do Americans always believe they are on the right side but China, Canada, Mexico, Europe, Japan, Korea...are the ones that take advantages? America is the victim of the world?
Outside of America, do people believe such a claim?
Well dumb uneducated Americans certainly canít think beyond the usual tribalism. But there are educated ones who can think. The us plays the victim more for its own people. In the rest of the world the us is a bully with a 73 yo idiot baby at the helm.
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Old 05-11-2019, 04:29 AM
 
37,833 posts, read 14,725,575 times
Reputation: 24126
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
What total bull. NAFTA was Reaganís vision and NAFTA passed with overwhelming Republican support. Back when Republicans were the party of free men, free markets and free trade.
Indeed.

In 1984, Reagan passed the Trade and Tariff Act, which allowed the president special authority to negotiate free trade agreements more quickly. "Going off of Reagan's initiative, Canadian Prime Minister Mulroney supported the president and the Canada-U.S. Free Trade Agreement was eventually signed in 1988; it went into effect one year after."

Bush negotiated with "Mexican President Salinas to generate a trade agreement between Mexico and the U.S. The trade agreement was part of President Bush's three-part plan called the Enterprise for the Americas Initiative, ... "

"Bush signed the NAFTA agreement in 1992, which was also signed by Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and Mexican President Salinas. The agreement went into effect under Bush's successor President Bill Clinton, ..."

https://www.thestreet.com/politics/n...ement-14651970

By the time Clinton came along, it was a done deal.

Why Republicans lie about this is somewhat of a mystery. Easy enough to look it up.
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Old 05-11-2019, 06:02 AM
 
22,676 posts, read 12,147,174 times
Reputation: 7160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frihed89 View Post
Trade wars are NOT good for consumers. They ARE generally good for domestic producers.
In the short term.

In the long term -- as prices rise, demand can decrease and those domestic producers may find they are back where they started.
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Old 05-11-2019, 06:07 AM
 
Location: Boston
7,544 posts, read 2,196,004 times
Reputation: 5359
this effects China seven times more than us.
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Old 05-11-2019, 06:12 AM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
29,287 posts, read 39,598,776 times
Reputation: 18702
Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
In the short term.

In the long term -- as prices rise, demand can decrease and those domestic producers may find they are back where they started.
There simply is no domestic replacement, no capacity, no labor slack that can suddenly jump n and help domestic producers grab market share/displace imports. And the long term uncertainty of Trump's shoot from the hip approach makes investment and expansion too risky. So they will just raise prices to match the tariffs and the consumer will get the bill.
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Old 05-11-2019, 06:14 AM
 
Location: Planet earth
3,275 posts, read 1,300,983 times
Reputation: 1099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frihed89 View Post
Trade wars are NOT good for consumers. They ARE generally good for domestic producers.
Trade wars are only thought to be good for domestic producers by the statists who demand that government interfere with the free market. When domestic producers are protected from free market competition, everyone in that economy pays more for their stuff. That protectionism (crony capitalism) is easily seen in the producers who have been protected (take US steel for example) via tariffs etc. but the cost of that protection is spread to all American consumers who purchase manufactured goods with steel in them. The government collects a tariff, a TAX, that the American consumers have to pay, just to prop up that one industrial producer (US steel) and the only benefits are visible in that small industry AND in the coffers of the US government because after all, the government is collecting that tax and they aren't giving that money to the steel industry or any other protected producer.

When Americans are forced to pay this protectionist tariff, they have less money to spend on other stuff. As a result, people who didn't get a job to produce things we could be buying lost opportunity because Americans had less money. They didn't know that they didn't get that job because that is the "not seen" part of Frederick Bastiat's "That Which Is Seen and That Which Is Not Seen" https://mises.org/library/which-seen-and-which-not-seen

While we can measure and quantify the supposed good of the government's protectionist action in the specific protected producer or industry, we cannot measure or quantify the productive activity that didn't happen simply because spending money or investment capital didn't exist because that money was tied up in paying for the protectionism of a specific producer or industry.

Bastiat believed the harm of the unseen far outweighs the benefit of the seen even though we cannot measure it because it simply never happened. Those industries and producers as well as their employees (all of whom never knew they didn't have those opportunities) that never happened because the unseen affect of people having less money might not be quantifiable but that doesn't mean it isn't a real affect of protectionist schemes. This means those trade wars undoubtedly harmed potential domestic producers as well as harmed the consumers.

Frederick Bastiat was a brilliant economist who recognized that any time the government interferes with the free market, it harms the free market in immeasurable ways. $2 here and $2 there, spread over millions, or in our case spread over hundreds of millions could have created immeasurable jobs, production and/or services that we will never know. All to protect ONE domestic producer, ONE industry, US steel. Now try to imagine all the productive activity and jobs that could have existed if our government didn't have a heavy hand in almost every producer or industry via protectionist regulations.

One thing is certain... more government interference will NOT solve this because government isn't the solution. Government interference in the free market is the problem.
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Old 05-11-2019, 06:14 AM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
29,287 posts, read 39,598,776 times
Reputation: 18702
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy View Post
this effects China seven times more than us.
You sure it's not eight times? LOL.
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