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Old 05-08-2019, 09:08 AM
 
11,286 posts, read 5,907,928 times
Reputation: 3532

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Quote:
Originally Posted by leebeemi View Post
One of the first responses to an argument for gun control is that "I use my gun for protection." That is using a gun as a solution. Warranted fears or not, it is.


^^Read the post above for verification of that idea.
Being prepared to protect yourself against a mentally ill person with a gun isn't the problem, and they aren't saying its THE solution. Living in a safe neighborhood, having home security, being mindful of your surroundings, not attracting attention, making it known that you own a gun as a deterrent (ie visual deterrence rather than pulling the trigger) and acting like a normal human are all precursors to the last resort of actually using a gun. Most people who own them for protection rely on the litany of things I just mentioned before ever reaching for the weapon and considering it the "solution" as you stated.

Those who view a gun and killing (lets not forget you said killing in your first statement) as "the solution" are indeed mentally ill. Unless your life or well-being is threatened, anyone who views killing as a solution is indeed mentally ill.
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Old 05-08-2019, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Marquette, Mich
1,183 posts, read 454,892 times
Reputation: 2496
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabchuck View Post
Thank you for validating my statement. The end user decides what to do with the object...regardless of what it is.

Of course--so if those who have ill intent are easily able to get a gun, there is a problem. Because a gun in those hands is deadly, right?


Quote:
Originally Posted by t206 View Post
Being prepared to protect yourself against a mentally ill person with a gun isn't the problem, and they aren't saying its THE solution. Living in a safe neighborhood, having home security, being mindful of your surroundings, not attracting attention, making it known that you own a gun as a deterrent (ie visual deterrence rather than pulling the trigger) and acting like a normal human are all precursors to the last resort of actually using a gun. Most people who own them for protection rely on the litany of things I just mentioned before ever reaching for the weapon and considering it the "solution" as you stated.

Those who view a gun and killing (lets not forget you said killing in your first statement) as "the solution" are indeed mentally ill. Unless your life or well-being is threatened, anyone who views killing as a solution is indeed mentally ill.



<sigh> It is A problem. But when someone says they use a gun for protection, they are using a tool (the gun) for a specific problem (feeling threatened). It's not a judgement. I just think people need to be honest about it. When I talk about the purpose of a gun, I mean what it is built for. There is no question that a gun is built to kill--how can that be an argument? So, we need to be honest about it, and say, "If threatened, I am prepared to kill an intruder." That's not fundamentally wrong, and I understand it. But that is really what we're saying, isn't it? It's self-delusion if the owner of a gun who wants to use it as self-protection isn't willing to acknowledge that the core of that idea is that the gun could kill. Why else would it deter an intruder? Until we are honest about that, our gun culture is not going to change.
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Old 05-08-2019, 09:35 AM
 
350 posts, read 132,514 times
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Iíve said if you want a gun you will find a way to get one and the argument was it would be a lot harder to get one if they werenít as readily available and/banned. But then how about all the illegal guns in Chicago etc....?
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Old 05-08-2019, 09:37 AM
 
10,082 posts, read 6,210,372 times
Reputation: 5691
Quote:
Originally Posted by leebeemi View Post
Of course--so if those who have ill intent are easily able to get a gun, there is a problem. Because a gun in those hands is deadly, right?







<sigh> It is A problem. But when someone says they use a gun for protection, they are using a tool (the gun) for a specific problem (feeling threatened). It's not a judgement. I just think people need to be honest about it. When I talk about the purpose of a gun, I mean what it is built for. There is no question that a gun is built to kill--how can that be an argument? So, we need to be honest about it, and say, "If threatened, I am prepared to kill an intruder." That's not fundamentally wrong, and I understand it. But that is really what we're saying, isn't it? It's self-delusion if the owner of a gun who wants to use it as self-protection isn't willing to acknowledge that the core of that idea is that the gun could kill. Why else would it deter an intruder? Until we are honest about that, our gun culture is not going to change.

I'll stop you right there. "if those who have ill intent" Once the decision is made to do ill intent, do you think laws will stop them ? The Sandy Hook shooter killed his mother to get her firearms which were locked in a safe. Was that easy ?


And speaking of easy, how easy do you think it is to get a firearm, say a semi auto handgun..legally ? Do you know the steps in your state ? Just curious.
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Old 05-08-2019, 09:39 AM
TKO
 
Location: On the Border
2,896 posts, read 3,070,326 times
Reputation: 2394
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabchuck View Post
Read post #7, please explain.
Murder rate is at historic lows. As are all violent crimes. Access to guns is at historic highs, however.

A pro gun site: https://www.ammoland.com/2016/08/per...#axzz5nLd6dfdw
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Old 05-08-2019, 09:40 AM
 
22,617 posts, read 12,107,922 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adriank7 View Post
I donít get this argument. My FB friends said anyone who supports the NRA should unfriend her. Iím not a gun person but I donít think that is the root cause. (And a lot of the anti gun rhetoric coming from the left is about control not always about gun violence). I feel a lot of it is about the degradation of society. Parenting, social media. In the 80ís and 90ís and before we didnít have these issues and their were guns. Yes Columbine happened in 1999 but that wasnít the norm like it seems to be now. If someone wants to cause terror they will find a way.
Your young.

Columbine was in 1999.
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Old 05-08-2019, 09:42 AM
 
350 posts, read 132,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
Columbine was in 1999.
Yes I noted that in my post.
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Old 05-08-2019, 09:49 AM
 
10,082 posts, read 6,210,372 times
Reputation: 5691
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKO View Post
Murder rate is at historic lows. As are all violent crimes. Access to guns is at historic highs, however.

A pro gun site: https://www.ammoland.com/2016/08/per...#axzz5nLd6dfdw

Please explain what you mean by access.


Ownership and access are two completely different things. Like many have told you already, firearms were much less restricted to purchase in the 60's thru the 80's. Ownership has nothing to do with these crimes.
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Old 05-08-2019, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Barrington
45,526 posts, read 33,801,567 times
Reputation: 15130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_N_1962 View Post
I agree it is largely the degradation of society but guns aren't going away so schools need to find a way to protect themselves. Probably a good idea for churches too.

I also blame it on the media and 'diversity'. The media makes a deal out each one of these because they want gun control and it only ends making these shootings popular because the killer knows they will get lots of media coverage. Forced diversity with cultures that do not want to assimilate are also part of the reason why there is so much anger. Also, TDS.


Local LE hold press conferences and use social media to communicate. A mass shooting in a school is news.

People are curious to say the least, about the identity and status of the shooter(s).

People us social media to communicate real and fabricated information, too.

The dark web has forums/ chat rooms where mass shooters are revered. Heck, they celebrate the birthdays of mass shooters. No shortage of people are obsessed with every detail, down to articles of clothing.

The conspiracy theorists are quick to pounce. And some of them have to qualms about promoting false flag ideologies and harassing families of victims.

Most spectacular mass school shootings involve white males randomly targeting white students.

The US has had a diverse population since forever.
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:05 AM
TKO
 
Location: On the Border
2,896 posts, read 3,070,326 times
Reputation: 2394
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabchuck View Post
Please explain what you mean by access.


Ownership and access are two completely different things. Like many have told you already, firearms were much less restricted to purchase in the 60's thru the 80's. Ownership has nothing to do with these crimes.
Number of guns per capita. There are a LOT more guns per person in the US now than there was in 1960. In other words, they were easier to buy back then but less people did so. The NRA has been wonderful for the gun manufacturing industry. The kids aren't going to the store and buying guns.
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