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Again, what worked there will not work here. Our inner cities and the violence in them proves it. The fact that the majority of these mass shootings the shooter had to break multiple laws just to gain access to the firearms proves it. Some of our most violent cities have the most restrictive firearms policies... obviously they do little.
Now if one could snap their finger, Infinity Gauntlet style and in an instant all firearms and knowledge of how to build them would go poof , then I think we would see an end to firearms violence... we would still have to deal with other forms of violence though....much like you fellows across the pond are... with knives, and box trucks, and improvised explosive devices... etc.
You are always going to have some violence, however in terms of school shootings and mass shootings limiting certain weapons and ammunition has worked in other countries.
In terms of gang related violence and homicides they are seperate issues, and school shooters tend to be very different to the criminal gangs that have been responsible for many murders in US Cities.
One in four people have mental health problem ranging from depression through to psychosis and it's one in three in terms of young people.
The vast majority of those deemed mentally ill are in no way violent, and don't want to harm anyone.
In terms of multiple shooters such as Columbine does that mean they were both mentally ill, and to be honest they pre-managed and planned everything to such an extent that it was premeditated murder rather than mental illness.
Mental Illness just seems a convenient label and something to blame in order to shift the debate away from guns, and the same is true of video games, family values and numerous other issues.
Lets face it in most countries, certain guns were restricted following terrible massacres and as a result there are now very few or even no massacres.
First of all, your intent to show that guns are the problem fails miserably. You state that "The vast majority of those deemed mentally ill are in no way violent, and don't want to harm anyone." The EXACT SAME THING can be said about gun ownership.
Your last statement is simply a lie. Australia grabbed guns after a massacre, while mass killings by guns dropped, the overall number of persons killed in mass killings stayed virtually the same. Mass killings by fire, beatings and stabbing skyrocketed.
"I can't make you understand. Guns can kill. It really is that simple."
I can't make you understand, ANYTHING CAN KILL! It really is that simple. Not ALL guns are made for the sole purpose "to 'kill" which is what you have been claiming.
A REAL question for you. Are you concerned about the number of deaths overall or JUST from guns?
Cars kill MORE then guns.
Swimming pools kill MORE then guns.
Blunt instrument, like baseball bats, kill more then ALL RIFLES combined.
Should we ban knives, cars, trucks, vans, buses, swimming pools, baseball bats?
Maybe we should apply the SAME, IMO, useless laws to these items, that have been put to guns?
You bring up the 8 year old. Does he have access to the kitchen butcher knives and al the rest of the knives? Are the drawers all LOCKED, so he can't get to them?
What about all the tools in the basement or garage? Do you think ANY of those could be used to "kill"?
Is every single item in your house CAPABLE of killing someone? Is EVERY SINGLE one of them LOCKED UP?
A gun is nothing more then a tool just like that butcher knife or long big screwdriver in your home.
You TEACH, I know a novel concept for some, your children WHAT to touch and how to use things.
"Given the debate over the 9-year-old with a gun, some examples of children who used guns to save the lives of family members 29 Aug , 2014
With all the discussion about possibly setting age restrictions on gun use after the tragic death of a firearms instructor in Arizona (see analysis here), here are a few examples of young children saving lives with guns. The fearless 11-year-old took action when she saw the cougar following her 13-year-old brother as he was walking towards their home . . .
In a phone interview with MailOnline Wednesday night, Shelby’s grandfather, William White, revealed that it was a fourth cougar killed on his property in the past several weeks.
Mr White, 64, a cattle rancher, said that earlier this month, Shelby’s 13-year-old brother, Tanner, also shot a cougar that has been circling his farm. . . .
The animal appeared to be moving in the direction of Shelby’s 13-year-old brother, who was unaware of the danger as he made his way toward the basement door with a bag of animal feed in his hands. . . .
Luckily for the older brother, the boy didn’t realize he was in danger until the cougar lurking nearby was dead at the hands of his sister. . . . — Snejana Farberov, “How girl ELEVEN grabbed gun and shot dead cougar that was stalking her brother, 13, outside their house,†UK Daily Mail, February 26, 2014 A ten-year-old boy left home alone with his sister used his mother’s gun to shoot an intruder in the face, police said. . . .
Deputies say Dean Favron and Roderick Porter knocked several times on the apartment door. The two young children, a ten-year-old boy and eight-year-old girl, stood on the other side, terrified. “He told his sister to be quiet and seconds later, they started kicking on the door and finally kicked the door in,†said Sheriff Mike Cazes. The two children ran to their mother’s bedroom closet.
In a panic, the ten-year-old grabbed his mother’s gun for protection. “He did what I told him to do. I never told him to get the gun, but thank God he did,†she said. Once the two suspects opened the door, threatening the kids, deputies say the boy fired a bullet into the lip of Roderick Porter. The two men were taken to the hospital by a third suspect, who is a 15-year-old juvenile. Once they got to the hospital, they were later arrested. “It’s just hard. I don’t understand why they would do that. I know they have little brothers and sisters and they wouldn’t want anyone to break into their house,†said the mother. . . . — David Spunt, “Child shoots intruder during home break-in,†KSLA News 12, July 16, 2009"
You are twisting so hard, you must be dizzy. I know people die in a variety of ways. I know a number of non-weapons can be weaponized. But a swimming pool is not a weapon. A hammer is not a weapon. A car is not a weapon. They CAN all result in death, but that is not their intended use.
I want you to answer ONE question, just one: What is the designed intent of most guns?
And, no, not everything in my house is locked up. But unsecured guns and children are a particularly worrying combo. If one keeps a loaded gun in a bedside table, and it is found by a toddler, it can have immediate & deadly consequences. Children are often in awe of a gun, and that can have deadly consequences. There is not the same sense of power associated with a screwdriver or kitchen shears. Kids are fascinated by the forbidden, too. But, that is up to the gun owner. If that gun owner is deluding himself that guns are somehow not lethal (which seems to be what you are arguing, btw), that can have deadly consequences.
Let me repeat, I do not think ill of people who have guns for personal protection, or for most other reasons. All I'm saying is, let's not keep delusional thought & language of guns at the fore. If you shoot someone, you could do grave bodily harm. Is that incorrect? Why is the fact that guns can be lethal such a sensitive spot for you?
You are always going to have some violence, however in terms of school shootings and mass shootings limiting certain weapons and ammunition has worked in other countries.
In terms of gang related violence and homicides they are seperate issues, and school shooters tend to be very different to the criminal gangs that have been responsible for many murders in US Cities.
Absolutely, although what they do have in common is they are both willing to break laws to commit their crimes. In some countries , such as NZ with only a little over a million firearms, it could get results , in a country with over 300 million firearms .. I doubt it.
You are twisting so hard, you must be dizzy. I know people die in a variety of ways. I know a number of non-weapons can be weaponized. But a swimming pool is not a weapon. A hammer is not a weapon. A car is not a weapon. They CAN all result in death, but that is not their intended use.
I want you to answer ONE question, just one: What is the designed intent of most guns?
And, no, not everything in my house is locked up. But unsecured guns and children are a particularly worrying combo. If one keeps a loaded gun in a bedside table, and it is found by a toddler, it can have immediate & deadly consequences. Children are often in awe of a gun, and that can have deadly consequences. There is not the same sense of power associated with a screwdriver or kitchen shears. Kids are fascinated by the forbidden, too. But, that is up to the gun owner. If that gun owner is deluding himself that guns are somehow not lethal (which seems to be what you are arguing, btw), that can have deadly consequences.
Let me repeat, I do not think ill of people who have guns for personal protection, or for most other reasons. All I'm saying is, let's not keep delusional thought & language of guns at the fore. If you shoot someone, you could do grave bodily harm. Is that incorrect? Why is the fact that guns can be lethal such a sensitive spot for you?
Here we go again with the "designed intent of gun" BS again. It is irrelevant and for those of us that defensively carry, we have to think long and hard down the road for legality reasons.
First of all, your intent to show that guns are the problem fails miserably. You state that "The vast majority of those deemed mentally ill are in no way violent, and don't want to harm anyone." The EXACT SAME THING can be said about gun ownership.
People can still own guns in countries with restrictions, the only thing that has changed is some restrictions on more powerful weapons. Traditional shotguns and rifles are still available and used by farmers, gamekeepers, hunters, target shooters etc.
Australia restrictedl self-loading centrefire rifles, pump-action or self-loading shotguns that have a magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds, semi-automatic rimfire rifles over 10 rounds, are restricted to government agencies, occupational shooters and primary producers
Restricted hand to target shooters and certain security guards whose job requires possession of a firearm.
Whilst all military grade weapons are illegal in Australia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise
Your last statement is simply a lie. Australia grabbed guns after a massacre, while mass killings by guns dropped, the overall number of persons killed in mass killings stayed virtually the same. Mass killings by fire, beatings and stabbing skyrocketed.
Australia passed new laws and just limited the power of certain weapons, and in terms of mass killings by beating and stabbing, it's a lot harder to kill a lot of people through these means when compared for a high powered device designed to kill.
As for fires, most public buildngs have sprinkler systems and I don't see a lot of children being set on fire in Australian schools.
Here we go again with the "designed intent of gun" BS again. It is irrelevant and for those of us that defensively carry, we have to think long and hard down the road for legality reasons.
It's not BS! If you carry a gun defensively, why? What is the point of the gun? The reason it matters is because we've romanced the power a gun represents so hard, and it is having a really bad impact. It's important to really, really be honest about what guns can do so we don't raise another generation that reveres guns to the point that some of them try to use them to somehow glorify themselves.
The rhetoric has gone so deep that we cannot even acknowledge what guns do anymore. That worries me, sincerely. We are caught up in the idea that guns solve problems--that IS what groups like the NRA sell. There are narratives telling "us and them" stories, bogey men around every corner, immigrants hiding in every suburban shed--they're coming to get us, to rape our women and steal our children, to take what is OURS. Arm yourself, or suffer the consequences. Oh, and the left wants to steal ALL the guns, so you better get all you can now! THAT is the BS, well & truly.
It's not BS! If you carry a gun defensively, why? What is the point of the gun? The reason it matters is because we've romanced the power a gun represents so hard, and it is having a really bad impact. It's important to really, really be honest about what guns can do so we don't raise another generation that reveres guns to the point that some of them try to use them to somehow glorify themselves.
The rhetoric has gone so deep that we cannot even acknowledge what guns do anymore. That worries me, sincerely. We are caught up in the idea that guns solve problems--that IS what groups like the NRA sell. There are narratives telling "us and them" stories, bogey men around every corner, immigrants hiding in every suburban shed--they're coming to get us, to rape our women and steal our children, to take what is OURS. Arm yourself, or suffer the consequences. Oh, and the left wants to steal ALL the guns, so you better get all you can now! THAT is the BS, well & truly.
I told you why, as have many others. That is all that needs to be said.
If you've actually done any sort of research , instead of just bleating the same thing over and over again you would see that you have brought up one of the many reasons one should not carry a firearm. You , like many others like you , have this weird connotation on the reasons for firearms. I'm not sure why, maybe it's fear, I don't know. Knowledge is key, maybe do some reading on the topic, think logically, not like an over emotional teenage.
If a person feels powerful, can't wait to use their firearm or thinks themselves now invincible due to carrying a one, they shouldn't be.
I know , I hope I go the rest of my life without every having the need to draw that firearm on anything other than a practice target.
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