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Old 05-18-2019, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Toronto
298 posts, read 67,289 times
Reputation: 240

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Time will tell who has fell.
Wait until IG Michael Horowitz's honest report is released. Going to be a lot of people with egg on their faces.
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Old 05-18-2019, 07:19 PM
 
37,855 posts, read 14,739,896 times
Reputation: 24164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydney123 View Post
So in essence youíre saying that the election was fare and square. No collusion on the part of the DNC and Itís been proven that Trump did NOT collude with the Russians. Trump won by capturing the majority of the EC.
It has been documented that Russia worked to get Trump elected. There is no denying that. They organized rallies, ran social media campaigns, hacked into voter data bases, hacked into the DNC servers, ...

And no, it has not been proven that Trump did not collude with Putin in this endeavor.

This is what Trump tweets and his drooling minions mindlessly parrot.

However, the 448 page Mueller, even lousy with redactions, tells a tale of criminal conspiracy, fraud and obstruction by Trump and those he has surrounded himself with, some of whom are already in prison or headed there in the near future.

Then there are the thousands of pages of investigative material still under wraps.

Trump and Barr are doing their damndest to try ad keep this under wraps, even trying to undermine our system of co-equal branches of checks-and-balances government as set down in our Constitution.

Whether they will be successful remains to be seen.
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Old 05-18-2019, 07:20 PM
 
8,665 posts, read 2,698,708 times
Reputation: 5316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydney123 View Post
So in essence youíre saying that the election was fare and square. No collusion on the part of the DNC and Itís been proven that Trump did NOT collude with the Russians. Trump won by capturing the majority of the EC.
Didn't Mueller say he didn't see any evidence of collusion? Collusion and interference by the Russians into our elections, whatever that means, are two different things. I'm going by what the intelligence agencies say about the interference. However, Mueller did not exonerate Trump for obstruction, so I guess we'll have to wait to see how that part plays out.
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Old 05-18-2019, 07:30 PM
 
33,914 posts, read 18,438,846 times
Reputation: 7487
Quote:
Originally Posted by trobesmom View Post
You're acting like it's as egregious as possible collaboration with a hostile foreign power. Or perhaps trying to impede an investigation into how that hostile foreign power impacted our elections. But no, Hillary should not have gotten her questions first.

To the bold, this is the only thing wroth responding to.......


Yes I agree...
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Old 05-18-2019, 07:38 PM
 
Location: St Paul
7,493 posts, read 3,502,368 times
Reputation: 4711
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
It has been documented that Russia worked to get Trump elected. There is no denying that. They organized rallies, ran social media campaigns, hacked into voter data bases, hacked into the DNC servers, ...

And no, it has not been proven that Trump did not collude with Putin in this endeavor.

This is what Trump tweets and his drooling minions mindlessly parrot.

However, the 448 page Mueller, even lousy with redactions, tells a tale of criminal conspiracy, fraud and obstruction by Trump and those he has surrounded himself with, some of whom are already in prison or headed there in the near future.

Then there are the thousands of pages of investigative material still under wraps.

Trump and Barr are doing their damndest to try ad keep this under wraps, even trying to undermine our system of co-equal branches of checks-and-balances government as set down in our Constitution.

Whether they will be successful remains to be seen.
You have your facts wrong here on several points.

- It has been alleged that Russia worked to get Trump elected.

- The Russians are also accused of organizing anti-Trump rallies.

Russians Staged Rallies For and Against Trump to Promote Discord, Indictment Says
Russians Staged Rallies For and Against Trump to Promote Discord | Fortune

- It's alleged, not proven, that Russia hacked into voter databases. It's actually been proven, that the Obama DHS hacked multiple states' voter databases on election night.

Homeland Security tied to attempted hack of Georgiaís election database:
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/08/home...se-report.html

Indiana joins Idaho in claiming DHS tried to hack their election systems:
https://www.computerworld.com/articl...n-systems.html

- There's also no credible evidence that the Russians hacked the DNC. In fact, there's no evidence the DNC was hacked at all. That story is based on a sketchy 3rd party company's (Crowdstrike) paid analysis.

A New Report Raises Big Questions About Last Yearís DNC Hack:
https://www.thenation.com/article/a-...ears-dnc-hack/

- Obviously we can not disprove a negative, so you are correct technically that it has not been disproven Trump colluded with Putin. It's also not been disproven that Trump colluded with Martians or the Loch Ness Monster. Since those types of claims are silly & without merit, we instead follow the law. There is no evidence that anyone in the Trump campaign, or any other American, colluded with Russia to effect the 2016 election. That's the conclusion of Mueller report & what fair minded people suspected years earlier.

- Barr was not required to release anything other than a summary report. Instead he released 85% of the report to the public, minus parts that Mueller agreed must by law be redacted & made 99% available to select members of Congress. Barr's not going to show the redacted names from the Grand Jury or the details of the ongoing investigations into the genesis of the Mueller investigation. Deal with it.
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Old 05-18-2019, 07:43 PM
 
Location: St Paul
7,493 posts, read 3,502,368 times
Reputation: 4711
Quote:
Originally Posted by trobesmom View Post
Didn't Mueller say he didn't see any evidence of collusion? Collusion and interference by the Russians into our elections, whatever that means, are two different things. I'm going by what the intelligence agencies say about the interference. However, Mueller did not exonerate Trump for obstruction, so I guess we'll have to wait to see how that part plays out.
The Russians have interfered in our elections going back decades. There was nothing unique about 2016. Multiple countries interfered in our election in 2016. What's important is no Americans & specifically no one from the Trump campaign colluded with them, which was the allegation.

Under US law, you're innocent until proven guilty. Mueller's job was not to exonerate Trump. Mueller's job was to either charge Trump, or not charge Trump. He did not charge Trump, because he didn't have a case. The notion that Mueller needed to exonerate Trump, is a fairy tale.
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Old 05-18-2019, 07:45 PM
 
8,665 posts, read 2,698,708 times
Reputation: 5316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000 View Post
You have your facts wrong here on several points.

- It has been alleged that Russia worked to get Trump elected.

- The Russians are also accused of organizing anti-Trump rallies.

Russians Staged Rallies For and Against Trump to Promote Discord, Indictment Says
Russians Staged Rallies For and Against Trump to Promote Discord | Fortune

- It's alleged, not proven, that Russia hacked into voter databases. It's actually been proven, that the Obama DHS hacked multiple states' voter databases on election night.

Homeland Security tied to attempted hack of Georgiaís election database:
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/08/home...se-report.html

Indiana joins Idaho in claiming DHS tried to hack their election systems:
https://www.computerworld.com/articl...n-systems.html

- There's also no credible evidence that the Russians hacked the DNC. In fact, there's no evidence the DNC was hacked at all. That story is based on a sketchy 3rd party company's (Crowdstrike) paid analysis.

A New Report Raises Big Questions About Last Yearís DNC Hack:
https://www.thenation.com/article/a-...ears-dnc-hack/

- Obviously we can not disprove a negative, so you are correct technically that it has not been disproven Trump colluded with Putin. It's also not been disproven that Trump colluded with Martians or the Loch Ness Monster. Since those types of claims are silly & without merit, we instead follow the law. There is no evidence that anyone in the Trump campaign, or any other American, colluded with Russia to effect the 2016 election. That's the conclusion of Mueller report & what fair minded people suspected years earlier.

- Barr was not required to release anything other than a summary report. Instead he released 85% of the report to the public, minus parts that Mueller agreed must by law be redacted & made 99% available to select members of Congress. Barr's not going to show the redacted names from the Grand Jury or the details of the ongoing investigations into the genesis of the Mueller investigation. Deal with it.
There is evidence that the Russians interfered.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ump/878910002/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/power...=.571ff2f9971f
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Old 05-18-2019, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Boston
7,569 posts, read 2,201,185 times
Reputation: 5367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000 View Post
The Russians have interfered in our elections going back decades. There was nothing unique about 2016. Multiple countries interfered in our election in 2016. What's important is no Americans & specifically no one from the Trump campaign colluded with them, which was the allegation.

Under US law, you're innocent until proven guilty. Mueller's job was not to exonerate Trump. Mueller's job was to either charge Trump, or not charge Trump. He did not charge Trump, because he didn't have a case. The notion that Mueller needed to exonerate Trump, is a fairy tale.
Correct. MSM blather these idiots created and their brain dead followers slurp up. If Mueller had evidence of Trump crimes, charge him, let Barr, the AG, determine whether it's lawful to indict a sitting President. This silliness the deranged liberals keep regurgitating is that somehow Mueller didn't charge Trump because he's a sitting President, otherwise he'd be heading for prison, all total BS.
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Old 05-18-2019, 08:09 PM
 
8,665 posts, read 2,698,708 times
Reputation: 5316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000 View Post
The Russians have interfered in our elections going back decades. There was nothing unique about 2016. Multiple countries interfered in our election in 2016. What's important is no Americans & specifically no one from the Trump campaign colluded with them, which was the allegation.

Under US law, you're innocent until proven guilty. Mueller's job was not to exonerate Trump. Mueller's job was to either charge Trump, or not charge Trump. He did not charge Trump, because he didn't have a case. The notion that Mueller needed to exonerate Trump, is a fairy tale.
Mueller thought a sitting president couldn't be indicted. Sounds a bit like Trump was a little worried about something when his lawyer called Flynn's lawyer to give them a heads up if they found anything on Trump. Time will tell what comes of it. Guess all those people who were indicted were figments of Mueller's imagination.

I'll take Mueller at his word that he doesn't exonerate Trump on obstruction.
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Old 05-18-2019, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,680 posts, read 13,808,336 times
Reputation: 6929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000 View Post
You have your facts wrong here on several points.

- It has been alleged that Russia worked to get Trump elected.

- The Russians are also accused of organizing anti-Trump rallies.

Russians Staged Rallies For and Against Trump to Promote Discord, Indictment Says
Russians Staged Rallies For and Against Trump to Promote Discord | Fortune

- It's alleged, not proven, that Russia hacked into voter databases. It's actually been proven, that the Obama DHS hacked multiple states' voter databases on election night.

Homeland Security tied to attempted hack of Georgiaís election database:
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/08/home...se-report.html

Indiana joins Idaho in claiming DHS tried to hack their election systems:
https://www.computerworld.com/articl...n-systems.html

- There's also no credible evidence that the Russians hacked the DNC. In fact, there's no evidence the DNC was hacked at all. That story is based on a sketchy 3rd party company's (Crowdstrike) paid analysis.

A New Report Raises Big Questions About Last Yearís DNC Hack:
https://www.thenation.com/article/a-...ears-dnc-hack/

- Obviously we can not disprove a negative, so you are correct technically that it has not been disproven Trump colluded with Putin. It's also not been disproven that Trump colluded with Martians or the Loch Ness Monster. Since those types of claims are silly & without merit, we instead follow the law. There is no evidence that anyone in the Trump campaign, or any other American, colluded with Russia to effect the 2016 election. That's the conclusion of Mueller report & what fair minded people suspected years earlier.

- Barr was not required to release anything other than a summary report. Instead he released 85% of the report to the public, minus parts that Mueller agreed must by law be redacted & made 99% available to select members of Congress. Barr's not going to show the redacted names from the Grand Jury or the details of the ongoing investigations into the genesis of the Mueller investigation. Deal with it.
Itís not alleged that the Russians tried to get elected, that is a fact.
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