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Old 05-09-2019, 01:07 PM
 
4,195 posts, read 1,600,389 times
Reputation: 2183

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Open-D View Post
Boy, if your post is an indication of your degree of confusion, please don't get behind the wheel.


Conservatives have a firm grasp on reality, what works, what doesn't, and what destroys.


Capitalism works, it produces wealth and elevates ALL who PARTICIPATE.


Socialism doesn't, and can't work. I totally ignores human nature, including motivations and the effort/rewards relationship. It assumes and fully believes that people will work hard and diligently, and strive to improve, in return for nothing more than "their needs". That motivates NOBODY beyond a minimal effort.


Socialism has never "fixed" anything, but has broken such once-prosperous nations such as Cuba, and, as we are watching now, Venezuela.


Inequality is reality and neither needs or can be fixed as it is in the DNA which contains the definition for each and every living thing. However, even identical twins have some degree of inequality, aka "difference" despite identical DNA
im not a liberal, socialist or any of YOUR labels...industrialized capitalism has allowed man to enjoy a standard of living unattainable in history..but it is not perfect



so social security was not a "fix" for older people? the fire dept is BAD? the 40 week, 8 hr day all bad bad bad...see you see it is NOT i repeat a good/bad paradigm...please
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Old 05-09-2019, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
4,761 posts, read 7,835,363 times
Reputation: 5328
I would agree that the political spectrum appears to have shifted left over the past decade or two. I think it is mostly appearance. I think we can all agree that the left's political message is the loudest and most repeated but it doesn't really mean the majority of the country is moving in that direction.



Aside from the religious aspects, I think right-leaning politics will become more common in the years to come. Not hard right, just right leaning. As that happens, the center will return more towards where it has commonly been. I think the insanity of some left-leaning pols who keep getting airtime will cause this. Most people don't prefer to remain pissed off all the time and that seems to be a lot of what the left is offering. Well, if what I see in the media is to be believed. Regardless, that will be what sends people back towards the direction of the right and they;ll wind up pretty much in the "older" center.



As far as calling Cortez a centrist, that's a laughable twist on what politics has become. I think a lot of people's idea of a centrist would be someone who agrees with ideas on both sides somewhere around 50/50. Cortez would certainly not fit that definition.



Saying she is centrist in regards to policies, I don't see that either. None of her ideas or policies would indicate centrist beliefs or stances.



The only reason I can think of to call Cortez a centrist is to peddle the idea that the policies she supports are more mainstream than they are. I'm pretty sure we know that is not the case. I suppose they'll try to paint Sanders as a moderate next.
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Old 05-09-2019, 01:33 PM
 
4,336 posts, read 1,554,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elvis44102 View Post
im not a liberal, socialist or any of YOUR labels...industrialized capitalism has allowed man to enjoy a standard of living unattainable in history..but it is not perfect



so social security was not a "fix" for older people? the fire dept is BAD? the 40 week, 8 hr day all bad bad bad...see you see it is NOT i repeat a good/bad paradigm...please
Social Security has no business existing and didn't fix much of anything except create an unworkable Ponzi scheme that will inevitably collapse.


Fire Departments have nothing to do with Socialism.




Ditto 40hr work week and 8hr day.


I repeat, Socialism fixes nothing, and destroys everything.


BTW, I don't believe I applied any label to you.
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Old 05-09-2019, 01:56 PM
 
3,372 posts, read 1,565,973 times
Reputation: 4597
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
Young Americans are moving steadily left, driven by their life experience with the system as it has been.

Many of the young Americans I encounter on a daily basis in my line of work are strong AOC supporters. These individuals have absolutely no life experience, have very distorted views of the real world, and will likely be living at home with their parents into their 30s.
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Old 05-09-2019, 01:57 PM
 
4,195 posts, read 1,600,389 times
Reputation: 2183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Open-D View Post
Social Security has no business existing and didn't fix much of anything except create an unworkable Ponzi scheme that will inevitably collapse.


Fire Departments have nothing to do with Socialism.




Ditto 40hr work week and 8hr day.


I repeat, Socialism fixes nothing, and destroys everything.


BTW, I don't believe I applied any label to you.

Socialist/Unionist pushed for 40hr week and 8 hr day..i just don't believe in the benevolence of the wealthy and i am glad that people do exist that can satisfaction from life through scientific achievement or something other than money..


because saying people are mostly driven by money is in fact calling them something like whores..while that may apply to many as in everybody has their price as i said im glad its NOT a 100 percent general rule!
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Old 05-09-2019, 01:58 PM
 
11,988 posts, read 5,293,305 times
Reputation: 7284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bureaucat View Post
That old wive’s tale simply isn’t true. Gen-Xers and Millennials are deep into their 30’s and 40’s with no increase in the percentage of Republican vote as they age. In addition, despite claims to the contrary, the first members of Gen-Z to vote are voting like Millennials.

Studies have shown that the more truthful statement is that for the majority of people, political identity is established in young adulthood and kept for life. That’s why generations have their own unique characteristics. The political conditions prevalent during young adulthood forge a generation's political identity.

If you look at a particular birth year and add 18 years, you’ll find that the strongest Republican percentages correlate to when there was a popular Republican (Reagan) in the White House. Same with the Democrats. If it was really inherent that you grew more conservative as you grew older, you wouldn’t find variations like that upon generations based upon what the political climate was when they came of age.


https://www.people-press.org/2018/03...ican-politics/

New Survey: Young Staying Liberal, Conservatives Dying Off

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2019...itical-issues/

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/23/u...llennials.html
Also added an interesting graphic that shows how birth years have voted through time. Studies have found that events that occur when we are 18 are three times as likely as being pivotal in establishing political identity as events when we are 40 or older.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-politics.html

Last edited by Bureaucat; 05-09-2019 at 02:44 PM..
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Old 05-09-2019, 02:03 PM
 
30,063 posts, read 18,663,011 times
Reputation: 20880
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiseManOnceSaid View Post
It's no different than when I was a kid. Rage against the machine. Nevermind the bullocks, it's the Sex Pistols. Kids will always think that the system is out to get them, then they grow old and have to pay taxes and turn to conservatives.


Indeed- Even Johnny Rotten was complaining like an old geezer about homeless people camping outside the gates of his house in CA. It is a long way since '78.


When you are younger and have nothing, it is seductive to hear about the freebies from socialists and about the oppressive capitalists. Then you get older and realize it's BS. Some people remain a child forever (like Bernie, Warren, AOC) and still believe the same tripe that everyone else grew out of.
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Old 05-09-2019, 02:33 PM
 
10,609 posts, read 5,647,123 times
Reputation: 18905
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusillirob1983 View Post
... and Republican led deregulation that led to the recession.
LOL! I know where you read that - it was Barnes & Noble, right? In the fiction aisle, right?

The genesis of the Great Recession lies in the 1st Clinton Administration, when Henry Cisneros was Secretary of HUD and Roberta Achtenberg was the disgraced Assistant Secretary of HUD for Fair Housing & Equal Opportunity. There is a special place in Hell reserved for Achtenberg based on her Crimes against The People.

During the economic boom of the 1980s (likely before you were born), the model of family had been flipped on its head. In the old days (1960s and before), dad had a job, and his paycheck paid the mortgage, put food on the table, and clothed all the family members, and some of what was left went into savings for college for the kids, for retirement, for a vacation, etc. But, during the 80s, the model flipped: in most cases, a house became a family's primary source of wealth, and dad's job existed just to pay the bills.

Disgraced Roberta Achtenberg kept seeing families wealth going up due to real estate, and that bothered her. She feared poor people, and in particular poor people of color were not part of the home ownership/equity appreciation bandwagon. Poor people and specifically poor people of color were being left at the station while the prosperity train left with its white passengers.

Achtneberg, being the Assistant Secretary of HUD for Fair Housing & Equal Opportunity, launched a pan-governmental effort to increase home ownership among her constituency. She coordinated efforts to twist the arms of banks & mortgage originators to issue more loans to people farther down the economic ladder, and in particular, people of color farther down the economic ladder.

Banks, responding that they were already issuing mortgages in a color-blind manner to everyone with a pulse who could reasonably be expected to pay back the loan. If they were to issue more, the mortgage originators said, each of those loans they would be forced to issue (forced in the sense of the Federal regulatory apparatus) would have a negative EV. The only way to do that would be if they could package up these smelly negative EV & sub-prime loans together with loans that had a positive expectation, and sell them off to Wall Street. The Federal Government acquiesced, and Bear Sterns became the first Wall Street Bank to securitize such a portfolio and sell slices of it off to eager investors - frequently widows & orphans and sometimes sovereign wealth funds. Those were the first CDOs. That happened in the waning days of the 1st Clinton Administration.

Bear Sterns discovered it could make huge fees foisting this government-mandated detritus off onto unsuspecting investors. So they ramped up production during the 2nd Clinton Administration.

The rest, as they say, is history. True to everyone's a priori belief, those people far down the economic ladder couldn't pay back the money they had borrowed. They stiffed their mortgage holders.

It all started to collapse.

But by then, the disgraced Roberta Achtenberg had left the Federal Government. The rest of the country bore the burden of her left-wing ideology.
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Old 05-09-2019, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
37,170 posts, read 19,194,865 times
Reputation: 14896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrie22 View Post
Youth? Peers?.....ROTFL

....they're not going to be kids...with no house, kids, mortgage, ins payments, taxes, etc..still living with Mom and Dad who pay all those things.....forever

When they grow up...they won't be "youth" or "peers" any more
If you were born in 1980, you're pushing 40 right now. That's pretty grown up.
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Old 05-09-2019, 02:50 PM
 
4,195 posts, read 1,600,389 times
Reputation: 2183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bureaucat View Post
That old wive’s tale simply isn’t true. Gen-Xers and Millennials are deep into their 30’s and 40’s with no increase in the percentage of Republican vote as they age. In addition, despite claims to the contrary, the first members of Gen-Z to vote are voting like Millennials.

Studies have shown that the more truthful statement is that for the majority of people, political identity is established in young adulthood and kept for life. That’s why generations have their own unique characteristics. The political conditions prevalent during young adulthood forge a generation's political identity.


https://www.people-press.org/2018/03...ican-politics/

New Survey: Young Staying Liberal, Conservatives Dying Off

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2019...itical-issues/

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/23/u...llennials.html
yes i am not so sure since the advent of this yuge amount of information (interwebs) one can rely on traditional thinking so much...the problem with the huge amount of information is ALL the bad information within


but once one researches a certain amount one can get a feel for seeing the same sources cross-referenced and so on to get to truths....
the truth is due to the repeal of the 1987 equal-time FCC ruling it set the stage for barroom blow-hards like rush Limbaugh to talk semi-factual anecdotes to death and present them as truths (welfare-Cadillac queens)(this is WHY the US is pretty far right on the world arena)

of course complete socialism will NOT take hold in America, but i am thinking the age of "tax-cuts" and such is waning...
of course there is the love it or leave it crowd who disregard other forms of capitalism such as done in Germany where much more local control is prevalent i believe..im not sure HOW you convince people you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater and that one CAN support capitalism and STILL incorporate socialistic ideas within the framework
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