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Old 05-11-2019, 05:38 AM
 
36,596 posts, read 16,002,497 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEPLimey View Post
We are arguing that unlimited donations (particularly anonymous ones) have handed the mega-rich an outsized influence on the electoral process and that the playing field should be leveled.
In all honesty do YOU vote by what you see or hear in campaign ads, ESPECIALLY KNOWING how biased they are?
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Old 05-11-2019, 05:42 AM
 
Location: *
8,065 posts, read 2,394,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
"Freedom of speech was never meant to include freedom to donate unlimited amounts of money anonymously to impact political outcomes"

Show us quotes from the Founding Father's supporting your "opinion".

The court rewrote the 1st to include freedom of EXPRESSION.

I can burn the American flag to "express" how I "feel" about something. Is there a LIMIT on how may flags I can burn?

In order to "express" who I want as a politician in office I "express" it by contributing to their campaign. The government CANNOT put a limit on how much I want to "express" X to win.
The Preamble of the Constitution of the United States of America:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Not with We the Corporations ...

Supreme Court Justices & their decisions are not infallible. Citizens United v. Fed. Election Comm'n is already on some the various 'Worst SCOTUS decisions' lists. Corporations are a legal fiction; their "personhood" began with a "deliberate, brazen forgery":

Quote:
In the 1880s, the Southern Pacific Railroad Company launched a remarkable series of what its lawyers called “test cases” — more than 60 in all — to win expansive rights for corporations under the 14th Amendment. Two of those cases made it to the Supreme Court. In the first, the railroad’s lawyer, Roscoe Conkling, who had been one of the drafters of the 14th Amendment, told the justices the provision was written to protect not just the freed slaves but also business corporations. He even produced a musty old journal that he said was a never-published record of the drafting committee’s deliberations. The journal was real, but historians who looked into the case years later quickly realized that the amendment had never been revised in the way Conkling claimed. As Howard Jay Graham, one of the leading historians on the 14th Amendment, concluded, Conkling had engaged in “a deliberate, brazen forgery” to win new rights for corporations.

...Once the Supreme Court extended 14th Amendment rights of equal protection and due process to corporations, businesses flooded the courts with constitutional challenges. The ensuing years would be known as the Lochner era, when the court broadly read the Constitution to protect business. Meanwhile, in cases like Plessy v. Ferguson, the justices refused to read the 14th Amendment to provide any meaningful protections for minorities. By 1912, the court had heard only 28 cases on the 14th Amendment rights of African Americans — and an astonishing 312 cases on the 14th Amendment rights of corporations.
Ask the author: “We the Corporations”
https://www.scotusblog.com/2018/05/a...-corporations/
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Old 05-11-2019, 05:44 AM
 
36,596 posts, read 16,002,497 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eumaois View Post
I am not a fan of corporations being treated as a person, especially when there name is Disney because they are infamous for the congressional lobbying for stricter and longer copyrights.

What is the difference between a business, say like Disney, and the AFL-CIO?
P.S. The AFL-CIO does NOT poll its members BEFORE giving campaign donation money.
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Old 05-11-2019, 05:47 AM
 
78,223 posts, read 33,331,609 times
Reputation: 15657
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy View Post
why don't the Democrats work on healthcare instead?
They absolutely should. Not that the Republicans or Trump will go along but yes, they should be beating on that.
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Old 05-11-2019, 05:49 AM
 
36,596 posts, read 16,002,497 times
Reputation: 8306
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
The Preamble of the Constitution of the United States of America:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Not with We the Corporations ...

Supreme Court Justices & their decisions are not infallible. Citizens United v. Fed. Election Comm'n is already on some the various 'Worst SCOTUS decisions' lists. Corporations are a legal fiction; their "personhood" began with a "deliberate, brazen forgery":

Ask the author: “We the Corporations”
https://www.scotusblog.com/2018/05/a...-corporations/
"Not with We the Corporations ..."

And it does NOT say it excludes them does it?

Corps are OWNED by people. What is your opinion on unions and other Associations?

The Constitution does NOT say "we the union" or "we the association", etc.

The "author" asked, is just another college teacher who is entitled to his OPINION just like everybody else. he has only 6 YEARS experience, '95 to '01, WORKING in law, and NEVER ON HIS OWN, the rest he has been a "teacher".

"as a law clerk to judge David Thompson of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit from 1995-96. As a young lawyer, Winkler practiced with prominent trial lawyer Howard Weitzman and represented Michael Jackson in his defense against charges of sexual assault.[5] He has taught at UCLA School of Law since 2002,[5] receiving tenure in 2007. Prior to joining the faculty at UCLA, he was the John M. Olin Fellow at the University of Southern California Law School from 2001-02."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Winkler


Obama TAUGHT Constitutional LAW but, was OVERTURNED by the courts MORE then any other president, some by a 9-0 vote, so JUST because you teach does NOT mean you are more knowledgeable then someone else.

Last edited by Quick Enough; 05-11-2019 at 06:04 AM..
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Old 05-11-2019, 05:51 AM
 
78,223 posts, read 33,331,609 times
Reputation: 15657
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
The Preamble of the Constitution of the United States of America:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Not with We the Corporations ...

Supreme Court Justices & their decisions are not infallible. Citizens United v. Fed. Election Comm'n is already on some the various 'Worst SCOTUS decisions' lists. Corporations are a legal fiction; their "personhood" began with a "deliberate, brazen forgery":



Ask the author: “We the Corporations”
https://www.scotusblog.com/2018/05/a...-corporations/
Corporations did not bring about the lawsuit. The reason for the law and lawsuit was not corporations. Politicians have done a great job spinning this into this but the law was trying to restrict the people.

I asked earlier (as I often ask questions no one answers), why don't politicians simply remove the tax deduction? They want the money involved. They just want as much control over the money as possible.
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Old 05-11-2019, 05:52 AM
 
Location: *
8,065 posts, read 2,394,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
"Comparing the influence of a local billboard to the influential impact of a $93 million donation is the logical fallacy of false equivalence"

Who says ONLY LOCALS will read them? It depends on WHERE they are.

How much do you think it would cost to put a bill board in every state that I 95 runs through for say a month before the election?
Average daily traffic is over 72,000 vehicles, with peak daily average over 300,000 vehicles. Who knows how many voters are in the vehicles.

https://i95coalition.org/the-coalition-2/i-95-facts/

LA has over 85,000 Commuters a month.

Commuter Numbers and Times in Los Angeles County, California

I think the "impact" is a hell of a lot MORE then you think!
Please calm down. All I'm saying is that I think it's perpetuating a fallacious argument, i.e. one of false equivalency, to assert:

Putting up 100s of billboards is no different from an individual's $93 million campaign donation even if it's funneled through various PACs & Super PACs.
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Old 05-11-2019, 05:56 AM
 
78,223 posts, read 33,331,609 times
Reputation: 15657
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Please calm down. All I'm saying is that I think it's perpetuating a fallacious argument, i.e. one of false equivalency, to assert:

Putting up 100s of billboards is no different from an individual's $93 million campaign donation even if it's funneled through various PACs & Super PACs.
Why didn't Hillary win?
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Old 05-11-2019, 06:01 AM
 
6,262 posts, read 2,672,504 times
Reputation: 2313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
What is the difference between a business, say like Disney, and the AFL-CIO?
P.S. The AFL-CIO does NOT poll its members BEFORE giving campaign donation money.
Corporate lobbyists need to be booted out of Washington DC.
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Old 05-11-2019, 06:01 AM
 
Location: *
8,065 posts, read 2,394,626 times
Reputation: 2206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
"Not with We the Corporations ..."

And it does NOT say it excludes them does it?

Corps are OWNED by people. What is your opinion on unions and other Associations?

The Constitution does NOT say "we the union" or "we the association", etc.


The "author" asked, is just another college teacher who is entitled to his OPINION just like everybody else.


Obama TAUGHT Constitutional LAW but, was OVERTURNED by the courts MORE then any other president, some by a 9-0 vote, so JUST because you teach does NOT mean you are more knowledgeable then someone else.
The US Constitution does not say it excludes a lot of things? That's a baffling statement so leaving it alone.

The original concept of Corporate "entities" was to avoid personal liability. Corporations are legal fictions.

In corporate law, personhood means the corporation is its own independent "entity", with rights & duties wholly separate from those of its members.
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