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Anybody with an education and a working brain doesn't support a system that insists black people can't stand up by ourselves unless government supports them. That's the democrat party. It's the same party now as it was back in the days of slavery and Jim Crow. It isn't the republican party that holds our people down.
You may want to talk to the black people and ask them why 90% of them are voting for the racist Democrats?
I've read a lot about NYC competitive high schools amongst black professionals including a lot of black NYers.
Consensus I've seen is that many black families/students no longer want to attend those schools as they have other options, including highly selective boarding schools based of of regent test results.
Often the press and the public, including most people it seems on this thread, like to focus on the test scores of those who take the test instead of looking at how many actually want to take the test and/or go to these schools.
As a black parent, I would not encourage my child to attend either of these schools due to the low population of black students. I'm actually looking into sending my youngest right now to a highly performing and rated private school, and the criteria for all the schools I looked at was that there has to be at least 12% black students as a part of the student body and preferrably 15-20%. The 12% is a deal breaker for me and I would not care about the academics at the school more than I would the social environment for my child.
Black parents and families invested in their holistic well being of their black children - many of them are very similar to myself and my husband and we would never place our children into a school environment where they will be an extreme minority just to try to impress or please the school system or prove to white people/the press/the public that our kids are smart. I know my kids is smart and taking that particular test and going to these types of schools is just not something that I'd want my kids to do.
From the OP link and a black student at a 5 year reunion:
Quote:
Judi-Ann Miller, a black woman who attended Stuyvesant and whom the Times followed for the 2012 story, had her five-year high-school reunion last year. In an interview on Wednesday, she told me that she was the only black student who showed up. Even though there were a handful of black students in her class, “it wasn’t an experience that they wanted to go back and celebrate,” she says. Stuyvesant is diverse, she says—among the Asian population, in particular—but the low number of black and Latino students made her experience difficult. “I’m not going to sugarcoat my experience and say it was lovely and great and this amazing intellectual challenge,” she says. “There were also a lot of social issues to deal with.”
I rarely if ever see any data on what percentage of test takers are black in particular. Also if they decline admission into the 2 schools that the press always speaks about, where do they go and why? I think most people would be surprised by the answers to those questions because they don't jive with the stereotypes of how the general public views black people/students. There is also data that shows that attending these schools don't really offer much benefits for black/Latino students at all further down the road. If they are great students they will do great wherever they go and oftentimes they are more apt to receive scholarships if they go to a lower performing school because they would have a higher class rank.
People make too much of a big deal of NYC elite schools IMO.
Another key way in which the culture can change is via increased Black entrepreneurship/business ownership. Pride of ownership is a strong motive, and such community leaders will be very good role models. It's hard to do, though, in heavily crime-ridden neighborhoods. It's horrendous what has happened to many of Chicago's Black neighborhoods. Store fronts are closed, boarded up, abandoned, and in dilapidated condition.
Ever been to the United Center in Chicago? The Bulls and Blackhawks play there, and it frequently hosts NCAA basketball playoffs/division tournaments and BIG name concerts. But drive down S. Damen Avenue (Malcolm X College is located just 2 blocks south of the United Center) to get to the Eisenhower (I-290), and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about.
There is nothing wrong with black culture....
All of this, as I noted above, often goes over you all's heads because you cannot conceive of the fact that many black parents and students just don't want to go to those schools.
For me it is similar to the police having issues recruiting black people today. Black people today have a negative view of PDs and LE agencies and so don't want to be in those professions anymore.
One of the best cultural aspects of black America today is that many of us have finally realized that just going to school with white people and being in a large white or non-black space is not "good" for us and is not the best for our children in the long term. Many of the black students who integrated public schools in the 1950s and 1960s and those who endured bussing to white schools in the 1970s/1980s are the parents/grandparents of this new crop of kids and we don't want to subject our kids to hostile environments.
Also "selective" schools and "ratings" are primarily based upon test scores and oftentimes scores on tests are not indicative of the atmosphere at a school. As a parent I look for an extremely diverse environment for my kids, caring teachers/administrators who actually know my kid and are invested in them and their success in all subjects (who believe they can learn it and won't dumb it down for them either) and who won't/don't demonize them or infer negativity on them, AND they are excellent in imparting knowledge. I also like my kids to have a plethora of extra curricular activities.
For college I'd honestly prefer my kids go to an HBCU because I feel it is an experience that will give them a solid cultural foundation to endure the corporate world and the global world in particular where they will be faced and asked about many of the prejudices displayed in this thread. I know my HBCU experience along with my elders who imparted a lot of cultural armor into my being are the reasons why I don't really care what white people in particular think of me as a black person/parent and that I recognize that various black and non-black people buy into ignorant stereotypes of us. Knowing this makes it not bother me as much. My son went to a not as diverse school in 7-9th grades and I regret sending him to that school even though it is one of the top 10 best magnet public high schools in our state. He is now at what many consider a crappy public school and is doing great there. The stress he was under due to having to answer a bunch of silly racial questions or be in uncomfortable racial situations was damaging to him and I learned my lesson and will never send my daughter to a school with a very small black population in particular.
That message is anathema in most public schools, which is why students are so desperate to compete to get into high-caliber schools that will help them reach their highest potential.
The same thing happens in Chicago. 16.2% of those who apply get admission to their top pick selective enrollment CPS high school. 24.2% are admitted to one of their top 3 picks. And only those who have a reasonable expectation of being a competitive applicant even bother to apply.
This link is not equivalent to the conversation in regards to Chicago. Chicago actually has a much larger percentage of black and Latino students in their selective high schools. My husband is an alum of one of those schools as well.
I also know that they have a couple schools that are heavily black and the geography of Chicago means that often black kids in particular live on the south side and are not willing or able to get to the selective schools in the north and west sides of the city so they don't go to those schools due to transportation issues. We have a couple cousins at Gwendolyn Brooks in Chicago which is 98% black and a selective enrollment high school.
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Originally Posted by rbohm
and that is how minorities in this country are kept held down by government programs designed to "help" them.
if we truly want to help people, anyone, get ahead in life, then we need to set high standards for everyone, and expect them to meet those standards. if we do any less, then we will get what we have been getting, a lot of people that are functional illiterates wandering around like mindless robots doing what the so called "elite" tell them to do.
Thats not helping anyone because the actual context of your argument is a rich kid with a tutor for every subject vs a pour kid who has to go to work when he gets out of class to make sure the lights are kept on at home.
Tell me hwo the "minority" benefits or is on even footing in that situation ?
Without fail, progressive liberals demonstrate their inherent racism in their condescension. If they really believed in equality they would believe that people should be held to equal standards.
The problem is that NO one test should be used for admission to any school.
The White and Asian students have money for test prep. Most black students do not. Research suggests that GPA may be a better predictor than the SHSAT of how students will perform in specialized high schools, at least for those who are admitted with lower scores on the entrance exam. Its use shuts out lots of students who can’t afford test prep. Students also have to know how and when to sign up to take it. Research has shown that integrated classrooms can benefit all students. Studies have found that racially and ethnically diverse classrooms can reduce prejudice, improve critical thinking, and lead to high levels of civic engagement.
It may be that more access to test prep and to taking the exam on a school day at some middle schools in underrepresented communities will help. Expanding gifted programs in underserved neighborhoods may also help. Reinstituting the Discovery Program which was a summer program that allowed minority kids who missed the cutoff by some small amount to get into the elite schools after a period of preparation. Tom Allon, the publisher of City & State and a 1980 Stuy alum, also suggests adding a writing component to the exam and changing the exam from year-to-year to decrease the value of test-prep.
Also, a note on these high schools. Many smart students cheat because of the pressure to perform and because the schools themselves are hotbeds of testing and the testing culture.
The problem is that NO one test should be used for admission to any school.
I disagree, and here's why... The nationally-normed SAT/ACT is the ONE objective factor that levels the playing field. All students' SAT/ACT scores are compared on an equal basis, because that's pretty much the only thing in their college applications which can be.
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