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Old 05-16-2019, 02:20 PM
 
1,855 posts, read 392,084 times
Reputation: 921

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEPLimey View Post
Incorrect. Take this simplistic example:

Chinese Company can manufacture a widget and sell it in the US for no less than $10 because of their low labor cost.
American Company can manufacture a widget and sell it in the US for no less than $20 because of their relatively higher labor cost.
A $10 tariff is levied on widgets manufactured in China.

American consumer is now forced to pay $10 more for a widget. And that assumes that the American manufacturer's supply chain doesn't suffer from increased costs stemming from the tariffs.

And consider this variation on the example:

Chinese Company can manufacture a widget and sell it in the US for no less than $10 because of their low labor cost.
American Company can manufacture a widget and sell it in the US for no less than $20 because of their relatively higher labor cost.
A $20 tariff is levied on widgets manufactured in China.

American consumer is now forced to pay $10 more for a widget... unless the American Company realizes that it can raise the price to $29 and still have the best price on the market, in which case the American consumer is now paying $19 more.
Doesn't work that way in reality. People will do without.
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Old 05-16-2019, 02:21 PM
 
Location: SDL/PDX/RDU
4,790 posts, read 2,550,769 times
Reputation: 5573
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
Because people shopping at walmart aren't going to pay the price for American made goods.

Levis about $60 made overseas. Same design made in America $148.
Work boots about $30 vs $150-$400 for made in America.
Oh they'll swear up and down they will, but you're absolutely correct.
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Old 05-16-2019, 02:22 PM
 
1,855 posts, read 392,084 times
Reputation: 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
As a national sales tax, import tariffs have some real advantages.

The first is revenue. Before the income tax, the federal government ran on import tariffs. Current tariff rates will raise over $500 billion over 10 years, which is a nice offset to the revenue loss from the new income tax bill. If Trump adds 25% against an additional $360 billion in imports, that is over $1 trillion in 10 years.

The second advantage is in productivity. The tariffs are essentially giving domestic producers a $50 billion a year subsidy. Some industries, like steel and aluminum, will just raise prices to meet the Chinese import price, but other industries will take advantage of their improved profit structure to expand production. In particular, it strokes the multinationals and vulture capitalists who buy up US industries and ship them to China for the sake of 1% improved productivity. You saw the scale of their "oops" in the stock markets this week.

Another advantage is efficiency of tax collections. All taxes are collected at the port of entry. Manufacturers and retailers do not have to implement a tax and bookkeeping structure that is such a burden in sales tax states. Like the European VAT, tariffs are rolled into the price of the item and are invisible to the retail consumer.

Bringing up the tail, there is the advantage that China has used a variety of strategies to make US goods noncompetitive in their country.

Understand that I really don't like Trump. I think he is wiping his butt with the US constitution, but I think his trade policies are in America's best interest.
Anyone who believes that isn't worth the time to listen to what he says.
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Old 05-16-2019, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
29,290 posts, read 39,616,576 times
Reputation: 18709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Open-D View Post
Doesn't work that way in reality. People will do without.
If people start to do without rather than pay higher prices or with the expectation that if they wait prices will fall when Trump backs off on tariffs, you are looking at an almost certain recession. The consumer IS the US economy and if they pull back it's Katie bar the door.
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Old 05-16-2019, 02:25 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
13,458 posts, read 8,479,915 times
Reputation: 19570
Consumers spent 13.071T just in the first quarter of 2019!
And somehow adding a .050T (that's 50B) yearly tax to it is making people believe that the world is ending.
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Old 05-16-2019, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
20,325 posts, read 10,401,186 times
Reputation: 7956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
Its painful to have to buy new appliances every 4 years due to poor quality.

Id rather pay twice as much for an American made appliance that lasts 20 years. Especially if it means that wages rise when we cut sweatshop labor out of the equation.
What's stopping you?

Sub-zero/wolf is made in the US. You'll pay for it, but it's available.
Speed queen is made in Wisconsin, but you're looking at $1k for a base model washer and dryer.
Blue star made in Pennsylvania about $4,500 for a stove.

There is a big list of made in the US appliances, no one is stopping you from buying American made.
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Old 05-16-2019, 02:31 PM
 
Location: SDL/PDX/RDU
4,790 posts, read 2,550,769 times
Reputation: 5573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
As a national sales tax, import tariffs have some real advantages.

The first is revenue. Before the income tax, the federal government ran on import tariffs. Current tariff rates will raise over $500 billion over 10 years, which is a nice offset to the revenue loss from the new income tax bill. If Trump adds 25% against an additional $360 billion in imports, that is over $1 trillion in 10 years.

The second advantage is in productivity. The tariffs are essentially giving domestic producers a $50 billion a year subsidy. Some industries, like steel and aluminum, will just raise prices to meet the Chinese import price, but other industries will take advantage of their improved profit structure to expand production. In particular, it strokes the multinationals and vulture capitalists who buy up US industries and ship them to China for the sake of 1% improved productivity. You saw the scale of their "oops" in the stock markets this week.

Another advantage is efficiency of tax collections. All taxes are collected at the port of entry. Manufacturers and retailers do not have to implement a tax and bookkeeping structure that is such a burden in sales tax states. Like the European VAT, tariffs are rolled into the price of the item and are invisible to the retail consumer.

Bringing up the tail, there is the advantage that China has used a variety of strategies to make US goods noncompetitive in their country.

Understand that I really don't like Trump. I think he is wiping his butt with the US constitution, but I think his trade policies are in America's best interest.
If that's the case why jack around with these games and just institute a national sales tax (or VAT)? Make it all out in the open and let the market sort it out. Stop the jive with tariffing #2 steel flat washers and not nylon washers. Take the revenue and apply it to our entire domestic needs rather than a few friends of Donald.
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Old 05-16-2019, 02:32 PM
 
5,214 posts, read 1,548,288 times
Reputation: 3041
Quote:
Originally Posted by Open-D View Post
Doesn't work that way in reality. People will do without.
First, this contradicts your theory that supply and demand will keep prices at their current level.

Second, opining that tariffs will simply result in American consumers not buying goods they would otherwise like to buy is not exactly a ringing endorsement of the tariffs.
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Old 05-16-2019, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Divided Tribes of America
13,539 posts, read 5,461,878 times
Reputation: 5295
Quote:
Originally Posted by remsleep View Post
30 years ago may as well be eternity when it comes to the pace of innovation in the free market. Maybe you have heard of a little thing called WWII. Most of the prosperous economy that you point to was caused by the US being one of the few industrialized nations that was not destroyed during the war. The rest of the world has now caught up. The US simply can't compete when Americans want $15-20 an hour and companies can move their factories to a country where that cost is a dollar a day. You also ignore the huge loss of buying power and downgraded lifestyle that all Americans will have to endure. You are asking every American to pay extra for everything so a few thousand workers can get raises. You want to redistribute massive amounts of wealth from millions of Americans to at best benefit a chosen few.
Ok, I give up.

What’s your plan for getting America out of its present course of permanent decline for all but the richest 0.1%?

If we can’t go back to 30 years ago, when things were better for the average American, then what can we do?

Remember, not everyone can be a robotics engineer or AI developer. Do we just let Darwin’s Law run it’s course and let the bottom 99% die off? Should only the smartest 1% be allowed to survive? That’d be a tough campaign platform to run on, at least.
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Old 05-16-2019, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
20,325 posts, read 10,401,186 times
Reputation: 7956
Quote:
Originally Posted by take57 View Post
Oh they'll swear up and down they will, but you're absolutely correct.
I was looking at a viking range for my kitchen remodel. I would have loved to have it, but the price was just too high.
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