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Old 05-21-2019, 04:16 PM
 
4,488 posts, read 1,845,544 times
Reputation: 6965

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
There is where you are wrong. A leftist will never give up and admit they were wrong; they will insist that the problem was caused by conservative obstruction (even though there are no conservatives in SF) and will move somewhere else and destroy that city.
I still have hope....

My liberal (borderline leftist) wife became suddenly concerned when the local leftist mob threatened to import two separate homeless encampments within a few miles of our house over a 12 month period.

Believe it or not she still wanted to be able to walk our dog at night safely, didn’t want our house and cars broken into, and even would like to enter the grocery store in peace without being accosted.

She asked “can’t we just pay for them to be sent somewhere else?”
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Old 05-21-2019, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,777 posts, read 26,067,151 times
Reputation: 33906
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
It's pretty simple.
When you have strays, stop feeding them.
Make foodstamp participation dependent upon having a physical address and shut down the food banks/ soup kitchens.
Set up feeding locations and allow tent cities in remote areas within bus/walking distance of the metro areas and provide free food/water and some form of shelter there. Allow drug use to be legal in those areas as well. Church groups and libs can feel good about themselves by taking field trips to the homeless camps and "helping" there periodically, then return to the safety of their clean town.
The homeless will go to where:
they are not arrested
can have free food and water
can use their drugs without being arrested
can crap anywhere they want without concern
Vagrants and "bums" used to be driven out of towns and they used to live in "hobo camps" away from the general population. The mentally ill used to be housed in long term care/mental hospitals. That is why you used to not have a "homeless problem". When I was a kid, there were "hobo camps" at points along the railroads where they lived, usually near a water source as well.
Libs, out of "sympathy" thought it was wrong to drive vagrants from their cities and stopped having them driven out or "escorted to the edge of town". Libs helped to shut down mental hospitals and "mainstream" the mentally ill.
Most problems in society can be traced to liberalism, which is always wrong.
Geezus, non disabled, non elderly adults can only get food stamps for 3 months out of every 3 years as it is. No one wants these "feeding stations" near their homes, or are you and your neighbors going to volunteer to be the first? You can't "drive people out of town", it's not legal to 'banish' someone, the closest we come to that is with sex offenders who can be prohibited from being around schools and parks.

Why just keep making stuff up that will never happen and is largely illegal?
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Old 05-21-2019, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Avignon, France
11,143 posts, read 7,902,924 times
Reputation: 28888
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane View Post
It should be considered an emergency, no? This is happening all over the US cities right under our assaulted noses, because feces do not smell rosy, and nothing changes. Therefore, it must be acceptable. How much are we going to take and what happens when it gets worse because we accept it as normal.
So what’s your answer? Or did you just want to complain? Jail them? Take away their shelters? Move their shelters to an area where you don’t have to see them?
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Old 05-21-2019, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,777 posts, read 26,067,151 times
Reputation: 33906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowhound View Post
My understanding is that back in the 80's the ACLU fought to over turn laws regarding competency and being able to put people into rehab/mental intuitions and budget cuts and a few other things contributed to all of the hospitals getting closed and people that shouldn't be on the streets getting thrown out.

I don't have all of the details but that was the rough picture as I have heard, particularly here in Ca. I do feel bad for some of these people but we also can't live in a society where drug use and taking dumps on the sidewalk with basically people camping out on the streets, we can't live like that either. It isn't fair to the average taxpayer in addition to being inhumane to these people.


There's got to be some basic solution here. There just isn't any political will and until people stand up and really get on this it's just going to get worse.
You need to do a little more research because what you heard is either made up for just plain wrong.

Quote:
O'Connor v. Donaldson, 422 U.S. 563 (1975), was a landmark decision in mental health law. The United States Supreme Court ruled that a state cannot constitutionally confine a non-dangerous individual who is capable of surviving safely in freedom by themselves or with the help of willing and responsible family members or friends. Since the trial court jury found, upon ample evidence, that petitioner did so confine respondent, the Supreme Court upheld the trial court's conclusion that petitioner had violated respondent's right to liberty.
By the time that passed mental hospitals were already closing down and had been since the 60's with the advent of psychiatric drugs.
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Old 05-21-2019, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,777 posts, read 26,067,151 times
Reputation: 33906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydney123 View Post
So what’s your answer? Or did you just want to complain? Jail them? Take away their shelters? Move their shelters to an area where you don’t have to see them?
90% of the responses here involve suggesting arresting people for the crime of being homeless, rounding them up, deporting them or institutionalizing them. All of which are unconstitutional but I guess with some folks the only part of the constitution they care about is the 2nd amendment,the rest is probably considered "fake news"
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Old 05-21-2019, 04:33 PM
 
30,020 posts, read 18,584,947 times
Reputation: 20803
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Geezus, non disabled, non elderly adults can only get food stamps for 3 months out of every 3 years as it is. No one wants these "feeding stations" near their homes, or are you and your neighbors going to volunteer to be the first? You can't "drive people out of town", it's not legal to 'banish' someone, the closest we come to that is with sex offenders who can be prohibited from being around schools and parks.

Why just keep making stuff up that will never happen and is largely illegal?
That is exactly what used to happen to "bums" and "vagrants". Vagrancy is still a crime in most cities. And yes, they were escorted to the city limits or jailed and then escorted out of town.


It really would not require that now. Simply stop feeding them and shut down outside public water sources and post signs that food, water and shelters are available at a nice remote location about 20-30 miles outside of town. You could even provide them with free bus service.


It would be win-win, as the homeless would probably love being able to do all the drugs and destroy whatever they wanted in a nice, new "hobo camp".


There are plenty of ruined urban wastelands like East St. Louis, Detroit, and Camden NJ where you could have "homeless super centers" in which huge sections of the city could provide a "home" for the homeless. Property in those cities is essentially free and there is still some vestige of a water, sewer, and electricity access. In CA, you could use Watts and Oakland.
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Old 05-21-2019, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,777 posts, read 26,067,151 times
Reputation: 33906
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
That is exactly what used to happen to "bums" and "vagrants". Vagrancy is still a crime in most cities. And yes, they were escorted to the city limits or jailed and then escorted out of town.
It really would not require that now. Simply stop feeding them and shut down outside public water sources and post signs that food, water and shelters are available at a nice remote location about 20-30 miles outside of town. You could even provide them with free bus service.
It would be win-win, as the homeless would probably love being able to do all the drugs and destroy whatever they wanted in a nice, new "hobo camp".
There are plenty of ruined urban wastelands like East St. Louis, Detroit, and Camden NJ where you could have "homeless super centers" in which huge sections of the city could provide a "home" for the homeless. Property in those cities is essentially free and there is still some vestige of a water, sewer, and electricity access. In CA, you could use Watts and Oakland.
No, vagrancy is not a law in most cities because it is too vague as is loitering. If it's "on the books", it's not enforced, Nevada has a law from the 1800's prohibiting swearing near a dead body, that does not mean that people get arrested for it.

Quote:
Quote:
Papachristou v. City of Jacksonville, 405 U.S. 156 (1972) The Jacksonville vagrancy ordinance, under which petitioners were convicted, is void for vagueness, in that it "fails to give a person of ordinary intelligence fair notice that his contemplated conduct is forbidden by the statute," it encourages arbitrary and erratic arrests and convictions, it makes criminal activities that, by modern standards, are normally innocent, and it places almost unfettered discretion in the hands of the police. Pp. 405 U. S. 161-171.
What I find amusing about your post is that you suggest that all water sources be shut off in any area where there are homeless people, I don't think that would go over too well with the general public. How about you quit dreaming up dystopian solutions that for the most part are unlawful and just plain silly and come up with something that makes sense?
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Old 05-22-2019, 10:50 AM
 
29,416 posts, read 9,604,172 times
Reputation: 3443
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
And you will be in trouble if you do that in a liberal city too. But tell me this, how likely is it that a person will continue going potty when they see a cop pulling over? And how will the cop catch him/her once they run away? You are asking that the impossible be accomplished. You don't want people to crap on the sidewalk then build more public restrooms, San Francisco has had a shortage of public restrooms since I was a little kid and that was a very long time ago. You don't want them to sleep on the sidewalk then we need to at least give them a clean cot and a safe place to sleep.

The problem is the same all over, it's just exacerbated in expensive parts of the US. There are fewer homeless in West Virginia or Kentucky because you can find a single wide to rent for $150 a month and two people panhandling can probably make that kind of rent. Look at Phoenix, they are very 'tough on crime' and their homeless issues continue to get worse as housing prices increase.

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/a8d...t=240&fit=crop

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.town...213a.image.png

https://images1.phoenixnewtimes.com/...mg_1449_1_.jpg

It's not a liberal or conservative issue, it's a problem with rent rising faster than wages and far faster than COL raises in pensions. Every day more and more people are without a place to live. You can hate on the homeless all you want but it won't fix this.
All true, and another factor is weather...

Downtown Chicago, for example, is very clean and almost homeless free by most appearances, but of course the weather there is not like most places in warmer states where you CAN actually sleep outside. In Chicago too, there are so many leaves from trees and snow on the ground that need to be picked up on a daily basis that also takes care of any trash on the streets. Not the sort of help you can get in warmer states and cities.

Homeless tend to gravitate where the weather is easier to deal with of course, and this too is neither a liberal or conservative dynamic, though I think it fair to say that most states where weather tends to be more mild also tend to be more liberal leaning. It's that ocean air...

PS: Even in Chicago, however, leave the city proper and venture into some of the poorer areas and it starts to look something like a war zone.
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:03 AM
 
8,168 posts, read 3,108,367 times
Reputation: 4500
Quote:
Originally Posted by carterstamp View Post
So what has the GOP proposed to address the homeless problem?

Bus them from city to city?
In regards to San Francisco, the homeless, crime, drug problems there.... and republican proposal to address such issues, when was the last time a Republican was mayor of San Francisco? Yeah, that's right.... in 1956. That's why the GOP hasn't been able to address such issues in San Francisco. The city (SF) started to become wrecked in the 60's, and just by "coincidence" a few years after the last Republican Mayor was in office there. Any wonder why. A matter of fact, the only thing minutely "Republican" that is welcomed in San Francisco was a naked statue depicting what the dems and libs all fantasized Trump's genitals to look like, put up right after he won the 2016 presidential election.

Last edited by FC76-81; 05-22-2019 at 11:13 AM..
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:09 AM
 
19,478 posts, read 12,113,851 times
Reputation: 26250
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
That is exactly what used to happen to "bums" and "vagrants". Vagrancy is still a crime in most cities. And yes, they were escorted to the city limits or jailed and then escorted out of town.


It really would not require that now. Simply stop feeding them and shut down outside public water sources and post signs that food, water and shelters are available at a nice remote location about 20-30 miles outside of town. You could even provide them with free bus service.


It would be win-win, as the homeless would probably love being able to do all the drugs and destroy whatever they wanted in a nice, new "hobo camp".


There are plenty of ruined urban wastelands like East St. Louis, Detroit, and Camden NJ where you could have "homeless super centers" in which huge sections of the city could provide a "home" for the homeless. Property in those cities is essentially free and there is still some vestige of a water, sewer, and electricity access. In CA, you could use Watts and Oakland.
It would have to be far enough away from other neighborhoods that people wouldn't freak out.
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