Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 05-18-2019, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
16,961 posts, read 17,239,356 times
Reputation: 30254

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Not the same old story again!

I am responding to the OP.

The state of texas, the Cato institute and many other right wing groups claim they can hardly survive without the economic benefits. I'll take their word for it.

"Texas economist Ray Perryman in 2017 put the total net economic benefits of the state’s undocumented workforce at $290.3 billion in output (gross product) and 3.3 million jobs annually."

WOW....just one state and we are talking 300 BILLION......wow.

In any case, there is lots of money being paid in....that won't get paid out.
Justification to break our laws. NOICE!

 
Old 05-18-2019, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,858 posts, read 17,229,731 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
Looks to me like you are the one who doesn't understand the big picture.

Could be because of the faulty sources you rely on ...
What sources?

That poster is perfectly fine stating that these folks are paying in and not taking out when it comes to SS and I'm sure that there is a surplus there.

But these folks use all the other resources afforded to them by the State (other tax payers) and that in itself doesn't make the net plus the total the poster is touting to be a true value.

These people drive on roads, send kids to public schools, use Medicaid, SSI, EBT, libraries, etc. Just like "legal" folks.

I'm not here to take the typical Right/Con/Repub side. You know I'm an anarchist.

We are all welfare recipients. To suggest there is a way to figure out a number someone is "saving" or "costing" the system is insane.

I worked in county administration in my younger years (I know...I'm going to hell for that ). Do you folks know how much money it costs the State to handle a simple DUI...especially if the person fights it? It's not their fault. What are they suppose to do? Accept the fine if they are truly innocent or even if they want a reduced punishment? DUIs aren't even a true crime (under natural law).

It's a system that has a built-in waste/efficiency mechanism on purpose. That's how you get away with robbing people blind and them not caring (I care...you folks don't).
 
Old 05-18-2019, 01:04 PM
 
4,197 posts, read 1,584,495 times
Reputation: 2183
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
Marxists don't understand capitalism. I doubt the GOP, boot-licking socialists, have a real economist amongst them.

Karl Marx spent most of his time criticizing the "capitalism" of HIS day (1850s) and very little did he write about socialism..the capitalism of Marx's day WAS much more harsh...it has changed some since then.


the fatal flaw of capitalism is ever increasing importance to cut cost which are of course workers take home pay..then these SAME workers do NOT have money to purchase things....the band-aid that has been applied was increasing consumer debt as in Bush2 running a war on credit with NO new taxes


since the 2008-9 crash economists have been revisiting Marx's writings...AND the church has been historically active around the world in much of socialism workings in the 20th century my response to those who bad-mouth Socialism out of habit would be it is YOU who seemingly don't understand Christianity and its influence in the common mans life....capitalism in the last few decades has lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty in China but because of the short-term profit variety we in the US employ the US...common workers wages have been stagnant since the 1980s tax-cuts
 
Old 05-18-2019, 01:05 PM
 
20,956 posts, read 8,578,120 times
Reputation: 14048
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
What sources?

But these folks use all the other resources afforded to them by the State (other tax payers) and that in itself doesn't make the net plus the total the poster is touting to be a true value.

These people drive on roads, send kids to public schools, use Medicaid, SSI, EBT, libraries, etc. Just like "legal" folks.

.
Yep, they pay taxes on gasoline too - tolls too and everything else. Their employers register the cars and trucks they drive and the extra money the employers make in profit due to better workers...that gets taxed also.

I think you and I and other math-capable people agree....the idea of the OP that this is somehow a "score" either way is foolish.

Probably no one here truly studies the situation but over the longer run it is certain that immigrant....whether temp, permanent, legal, illegal, undocumented or otherwise....have built up our economy. We didn't become the wealthiest country in history due to some Yankee bosses or Southern Plantation owners sitting on their arses.

My grandparents were immigrants...on both sides. Dad's dad opened a business making dresses. I worked there during my teen years and most of the women doing the sewing were immigrants, black folks who escaped the south or maybe the children of immigrants. Not a WASP in the bunch. No Germans either. Not a Russian among them...sitting at the sewing machines or ironing. No Scots-Irish came down from the hills or rural areas to sit in our factory.

That entire industry, now gone, was in the hands of immigrants. Yet it served real needs...
 
Old 05-18-2019, 01:11 PM
 
20,956 posts, read 8,578,120 times
Reputation: 14048
Quote:
Originally Posted by elvis44102 View Post
Karl Marx spent most of his time criticizing the "capitalism" of HIS day (1850s) and very little did he write about socialism..the capitalism of Marx's day WAS much more harsh...it has changed some since then.

the fatal flaw of capitalism is ever increasing importance to cut cost which are of course workers take home pay..then these SAME workers do NOT have money to purchase things....the band-aid that has been applied was increasing consumer debt as in Bush2 running a war on credit with NO new taxes
The old story - it will sell you the rope to hang yourself with!

The interesting thing is that the USA and Europe learned these lessons many generations ago. I'm reading a book on post-war Europe and the LAST thing that the US or European experts desired was a return to "unregulated, winner-take-all" capitalism. They considered that dumped into the landfill of failed history.

My take is that in the USA we have multiple forces which have pulled it from the dustbin and are trying to revive it.....

1. Religious forces - they like poor people...the more, the merrier, because since there is no salvation in this world, souls will line up for the possibilities of the next.

2. Wall Street, etc - more money for them, less for others!

3. Know-nothings - this is a BIG section of the population which fits "a little knowledge is worse than none at all"....that is, they were relatively ignorant but now they've "learned things" from billionaire financed web sites and TV and Radio.

Rhetoric aside the US has been doing a lot of the right things....mostly Democrats, of course. These are SS and Medicare and Civil Rights and Voting Rights and environmental movements, etc.

But those folks listed above don't want that stuff. They don't want commoners to prosper.
 
Old 05-18-2019, 01:18 PM
 
57,022 posts, read 35,014,465 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
So they sent out 500k notifications while Texas notes there are 3.3 million working illegally in Texas alone. So as noted, window dressing. They are not addressing the issue.
“Window dressing” is putting it mildly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
"Trump has been cracking down on illegals in the country as he tries to secure the U.S. border with Mexic"

CAN'T BE! We have been told over and over by those with TDS on here that Trump isn't doing ANYTHING about illegal workers here!
Lol...this is a joke, right?

The last quoted poster just told you that Texas declared 3.3 million illegals working in that state alone! So what the hell is Trump actually doing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
Trump again doing what previous presidents refused to do.
What...send notices to employers informing them of what they already know? Yeah, other presidents didn’t waste their time doing that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Thats a great point! If these people are using fake SS numbers, then they are paying into something they can never take advantage of. ID like to see the numbers on all these fake SS accounts and how much tax has been collected on them so far...and where that money is going to go.


Besides that aspect of it, Im not sure HOW the illegals are even doing this in the first place, when I was hired, and filled out all my paperwork, if I had used a fake SS number, it would have thrown up red flags left and right at numerous times during the hiring process...example, when I did paperwork for my background check, if I had used another SS number, that didnt match up with my name, it would thrown an error up and the report could not have been completed?


To get away with using a fake SS number, the person would have to find a legal citizen, that was close to the same age, from the same general part of the country, and whose work history matched pretty closely...this seems like it would be pretty difficult to do imo.
Dude...the employers are in on it. SURPRISE!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
I'll give you a hint.

The employers are helping them.

Hope that helps.
Lol...exactly. They know that’s the answer anyway. They’re just playing dumb.
 
Old 05-18-2019, 01:20 PM
 
4,483 posts, read 1,834,279 times
Reputation: 6952
Gotta love liberals...

“Open borders and identity theft is great because it will save social security!”
 
Old 05-18-2019, 01:41 PM
 
57,022 posts, read 35,014,465 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirage98de View Post
Gotta love liberals...

“Open borders and identity theft is great because it will save social security!”
No one ever said that, but your ass is headed towards the SS Office as soon as you’re eligible. And if there’s no money there, you’re gonna suffer a nervous breakdown.

And please don’t waste my time by telling me about the millions you have saved up in case of such an eventuality. Lol
 
Old 05-18-2019, 02:56 PM
 
10,226 posts, read 7,498,738 times
Reputation: 23155
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.R.I.O.N View Post
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...urity-numbers/


Wow. Imagine if those jobs were going to AMERICANS and not illegals with fake SS numbers.
If that's true....

Why do you assume those are illegal immigrants? Errors in SS numbers are made all the time. Also, it could be a conflict with another SS # of the same number, as a result of identity theft.

Do you have a source for this information? That article is not a legitimate news organization (it's a partisan website...like Breitbart,notorious for misinformation), so got this "information" from somewhere, but doesn't say from where or cite to it. A red flag should go up when you see something like that.

The notices were sent out by the Social Security Administration, not "the Trump Administration." The SSA has been sending out "mismatch letters" for many years (until 2012, when the use of E-verify became mandatory...saving a lot of time and money."

I'd want to know if this # of notices more than usual in past years, approximately the same number, or fewer than usual.

Finally, I'd want to know if it sent notices to the Trump Organization, which had in its employ hundreds of illegal immigrants who came to light, when they complained about being made to work overtime without pay.

Quote:
SSN mismatches are frustratingly common, but often innocuous and easily explained. Whether in the form of a “no-match” letter from the SSA or some other notification, these mismatches do not mean that the affected employee has committed identity fraud, lacks eligibility to work legally, or resides in the United States illegally. On the contrary, these notifications only mean that the employee’s name does not match the given SSN. Identity theft or fraud is only one of many possibilities. In fact, many of the reasons for an SSN mismatch have nothing to do with an individual’s immigration status or work authorization. Frequently, misreported or unreported name changes, operator error (at the SSA or by the employer or employee), hyphenated names, and difficulties translating or recording ethnic names can all result in an SSN mismatch. Employers should never assume that an employee is not authorized to work because of an SSN mismatch, and should never require an employee to “reverify” their employment eligibility or take any other adverse action against an employee because it learns of an SSN mismatch. Such actions could subject the employer to significant liability under the antidiscrimination provisions of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), codified at 8 U.S.C. § 1324b.
Responding to Social Security Number Mismatches: Threading the Needle between Discrimination and Employment-Eligibility Liability: Labor and Employment Law, School Law, Lawyers, Attorneys, Franczek

The govt has been sending out letters of mismatched SS numbers for years, until 2012 or so, when the E-Verify system became mandatory, which obviated the need of the govt to send out letters, saving a lot of time and money.

Quote:
E-Verify is a federal electronic system that helps employers confirm the employment eligibility of new employees. It is separate from the Employee Information and Verification Form I-9 that all employers must ensure their employees complete at the time of hire. Although completing a Form I-9 form is mandatory, enrollment in E-Verify was strictly voluntary until recently.
https://www.wisbar.org/NewsPublicati...ArticleID=8699
 
Old 05-18-2019, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,608 posts, read 26,228,305 times
Reputation: 12631
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Well, then the GOP lawmakers in Texas and Florida, the Cato Institute and many others must not understand the big picture either.

But you do.

What type of work do you do? Macroeconomics? Quant?

I'm just quoting the Economists and Pols in Texas and elsewhere who are saying they are getting vast benefits.

Is the GOP wrong about this but your "gut" is right?
"The GOP" ?

The GOP was forcefully taken over by the Tea Party movement (that's why we're not gathering in the parks anymore - we won!), so to suggest that corporate ***** Republicans/never-Trumpers and their 1%er friends that want open borders and free trade with third world hell-holes speak for anyone but themselves exposes and shocking degree of ignorance and denial.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top