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Old 05-19-2019, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,263 posts, read 28,068,309 times
Reputation: 28701

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
Are you in favor of on demand abortion for any reason up to the second before birth?
Such abortions are unicorns, mythical inventions of the minds of anti-abortionists. No one is going to do them. Gosnell was an evil aberration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
That is a very good question. Abortion is fine until 20 weeks gestation, and a premie can be viable at 22 weeks. Very little changes in those 2 weeks. It's really quite gruesome that abortion doctors are terminating such well developed fetuses. Could the problem with the law be that there was a bit of ignorance around the occurrence of a fetal heartbeat?

I am completely in favor of abortion in the first 6 weeks of pregnancy. I realize that most people have a black and white position on this: not at all, or whenever women figure it out, but women can and should be more responsible for their bodies. They should pay attention to pregnancy and act on an unwanted pregnancy immediately - regardless of how difficult that decision may be.
Do you think parents should be able to choose abortion of fetuses with severe birth defects incompatible with life that are not discovered until 20 weeks - or later?

Immediately for some women will be later than 6 weeks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
Exactly! Women who do not want to be pregnant can easily terminate the pregnancy if they do two things. First, they have to take responsibility for their bodies and monitor whether they are accidentally pregnant, and second, they have to make that difficult decision to terminate in less than 6 weeks.

The majority of women are intelligent and responsible enough to figure out that they are pregnant and to know their mind regarding giving birth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
Exactly. It is disgusting to suggest that normal, healthy, conscious self-aware women are incapable of figuring out that they are pregnant until after they are 6 weeks pregnant and 2 months after their last cycle. Women deserve more credit!
Many women, due to completely normal variations in menstrual cycle length, will not know they are pregnant until after 6 weeks. Why cannot you understand that? It is reproductive biology. Science.

The 6 weeks figure is gestational age (from the first day of last menstrual period in a theoretical 28 day cycle). Six weeks, not two months.The fetal heart may be visible at 4 weeks after conception, two weeks after a missed period. As others have pointed out, "heartbeat" laws essentially ban all abortions, because they ignore the logistics of suspicion of pregnancy and finding a provider who will perform the abortion.

 
Old 05-19-2019, 04:18 PM
 
18,639 posts, read 7,247,279 times
Reputation: 7971
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
. As others have pointed out, "heartbeat" laws essentially ban all abortions, because they ignore the logistics of suspicion of pregnancy and finding a provider who will perform the abortion.
Nonsense. Find a provider = ten minute google search.

I search my medical insurance website all the time. Piece of cake.
 
Old 05-19-2019, 04:24 PM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
20,322 posts, read 10,396,400 times
Reputation: 7953
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
Nonsense. Find a provider = ten minute google search.

I search my medical insurance website all the time. Piece of cake.
In my state there is one provider. It can take weeks to get an appointment with just about any doctor. Even My GP can take a month to get an appointment, and there are hundreds of GPs in my state.
 
Old 05-19-2019, 04:52 PM
 
18,639 posts, read 7,247,279 times
Reputation: 7971
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyJude514 View Post
Now, in states where there might be one abortion provider left, getting an appointment might take a little longer than ten minutes. !

1 provider in state = low demand for services
 
Old 05-19-2019, 04:54 PM
 
10,635 posts, read 6,033,189 times
Reputation: 5612
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
1 provider in state = low demand for services
No, it means the Christian fundamentalist Taliban has done its work to assure women remain barefoot and pregnant in their state.
 
Old 05-19-2019, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
20,322 posts, read 10,396,400 times
Reputation: 7953
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
1 provider in state = low demand for services
No, 1 provider in my state means that the state has passed laws that prevent any others from opening. In fact they keep trying to pass laws that would close to only one left but keep getting shut down by the courts.
 
Old 05-19-2019, 04:59 PM
 
5,060 posts, read 2,455,872 times
Reputation: 4604
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
Nope. If heartbeat was the definition of life, pulling the plug on brain dead people would be murder.
Already covered that. I'm referring to natural heartbeat, the one that is present at 6 weeks gestation. I'm not referring to the artificial heartbeat of a brain dead person, but that should be obvious given the topic for discussion.

People are dead when the heart stops. They are alive when it is beating.
 
Old 05-19-2019, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
20,322 posts, read 10,396,400 times
Reputation: 7953
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
Already covered that. I'm referring to natural heartbeat, the one that is present at 6 weeks gestation. I'm not referring to the artificial heartbeat of a brain dead person, but that should be obvious given the topic for discussion.

People are dead when the heart stops. They are alive when it is beating.
And the heart beat of a 6 week fetus would stop if removed from the life support of the womans body.
 
Old 05-19-2019, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
3,035 posts, read 533,773 times
Reputation: 931
'pro-abortion' is just typical 'framing.' Both sides do this a lot.
Politically-concocted terms intended to skew the debate. Let's throw them in the word trash can.

It's no different than 'climate denier,' a term coming from the left side of the aisle in an attempt to shame.
 
Old 05-19-2019, 05:14 PM
 
6,597 posts, read 6,793,218 times
Reputation: 9976
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
Malnutrition messes with more than reproduction, but abortion law should not be created around malnourished women's problems.

What's with the name calling! You sound like a mysogenist arguing that women are too incompetent to act on an unwanted pregnancy with 6 weeks.

It is a fact that human life is defined by a heart beat. Without a heart beat, people are dead. It is a fact that a fetal heartbeat can be detected at 6 weeks. That is nothing new.

Instead of recognizing that abortion prior to the existence of a heartbeat will ease the conscience after abortion, I hear so many excuses for why women are incapable of knowing that they are pregnant, and incapable of making a decision or acting on it once they are aware of pregnancy. Why so many excuses?

Not since the - what, 70s? - has heartbeat been the standard. Brain activity is the standard for a person dying. Now, without cardiac activity, the brain will be unsupported, and it will die, so it makes sense to check for a heartbeat.


As to the 6 week embryo - that's not a heartbeat, because it doesn't have a heart yet. It's an electrical signal from a few cells that will eventually become a heart. It has no brain, either, for quite a while. At 6 weeks, it's a "mass of fetal cells" that's just a few mm long.


Quote:
[SIZE=2]Fetal Pole[/SIZE][SIZE=2]
A mass of fetal cells, separate from the yolk sac, first becomes apparent on transvaginal ultrasound just after the 6th week of gestation. This mass of cells is known as the fetal pole. It is the fetus in its somite stage. Usually you can identify rhythmic fetal cardiac movement within the fetal pole, although it may need to grow several mm before this is apparent.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]
[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]The fetal pole grows at a rate of about 1 mm a day, starting at the 6th week of gestational age. Thus, a simple way to "date" an early pregnancy is to add the length of the fetus (in mm) to 6 weeks. Using this method, a fetal pole measuring 5 mm would have a gestational age of 6 weeks and 5 days.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]

[/SIZE]




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