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Old 05-20-2019, 06:28 AM
 
11,186 posts, read 6,481,197 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
Oh okay, I thought you could take the morning after pill every time after as a precaution but yeah if it gets expensive, then it does. Wouldn't condoms be a lot of help though?

Cause every woman I know who got pregnant accidentally, said they didn't use a condom, just the BC pill, so it seems that condoms are better to use, cause everyone I know who used one did not get pregnant, from the conversations I had, so it seems like therefore, condoms would have a lower failure rate?
The women you spoke to either didn't use the pill consistently or are very unlucky. The pill when used properly has a lower failure rate than condoms. If a woman would rather not become pregnant, can use the pill properly, and insists her sexmate use a condom, she has an excellent chance of remaining free from conception.

 
Old 05-20-2019, 06:42 AM
 
11,412 posts, read 7,758,917 times
Reputation: 21922
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzarama View Post
The women you spoke to either didn't use the pill consistently or are very unlucky. The pill when used properly has a lower failure rate than condoms. If a woman would rather not become pregnant, can use the pill properly, and insists her sexmate use a condom, she has an excellent chance of remaining free from conception.
Or insist her sexmate have a vasectomy. That’s the BC method with the lowest failure rate. Any man who refuses is just being irresponsible. Why can’t men just take responsibility for their sperm? If he’d just get a vasectomy, he’d have an excellent chance of remaining free from conception.
 
Old 05-20-2019, 06:53 AM
 
4,288 posts, read 2,048,946 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMS02760 View Post
Many of these "supposedly" pro-life people could care less about children after they leave the womb. They would rather mandate they are born and then later starve them to death.
Do you believe we don’t already have programs in America to feed poor children rather than starve to death?
 
Old 05-20-2019, 06:59 AM
 
11,186 posts, read 6,481,197 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
Or insist her sexmate have a vasectomy. That’s the BC method with the lowest failure rate. Any man who refuses is just being irresponsible. Why can’t men just take responsibility for their sperm? If he’d just get a vasectomy, he’d have an excellent chance of remaining free from conception.
If you're serious, that idea puts you in the Ridiculous Solution Club, along with the abstinence for all crew.
 
Old 05-20-2019, 07:19 AM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
24,260 posts, read 14,148,442 times
Reputation: 9895
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
Oh okay, I thought you could take the morning after pill every time after as a precaution but yeah if it gets expensive, then it does. Wouldn't condoms be a lot of help though?

Cause every woman I know who got pregnant accidentally, said they didn't use a condom, just the BC pill, so it seems that condoms are better to use, cause everyone I know who used one did not get pregnant, from the conversations I had, so it seems like therefore, condoms would have a lower failure rate?
Typical failure rate of BC pills is 7% Typical failure rate of condoms is 13%.
https://www.cdc.gov/reproductiveheal...tion/index.htm

People always quote the "perfect use" failure rate, but we all know that humans aren't perfect so I went with the typical failure rate.

OF the 50% of women that had abortions while using birth control 24% used condoms.
 
Old 05-20-2019, 07:21 AM
 
13,819 posts, read 5,541,058 times
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Per the thread title - because it's the most intellectually honest way to describe the pro-abortion side?

The right to life folks aren't opposed to women having cancer screenings, regular OB/GYN visits, access to various forms of contraception, etc. Not in the slightest. They are opposed to the clinical, methodical and purposeful termination of the unborn life inside the pregnant mother. Period. Just that one thing.

The pro-choice folks, therefore, aren't defending a women's right to choose cancer screenings, regular OB/GYN visits or the use of contraception. Those things are not under any sort of attack that needs a defense. Thus, the only choice that is being defended from any sort of assault is the choice of clinical, methodical and purposeful termination of unborn life.

I am 100% voluntary association anarchist. Obviously, that means I want government out of everyone's business entirely and universally, including this rather repugnant business we call abortion. In defending an individual's right to be left alone concerning that which does not initiate force against others, even I have to ask myself at what point on the timeline of life (which does indeed begin at conception, as that is the t_0 of the life timeline, with birth being a stage upon that same timeline) does the individual become imbued with their natural individual rights? If I say one must exit the birth canal to become an individual with natural rights, and I then figure prior to that the individual can choose as they wish regarding the clinical, methodical and purposeful termination of the unborn life within them, then by default, that position is pro-abortion. It's an ugly freaking truth, but truth nonetheless.

Believe me, it's one of the stickier wickets for us 100% voluntaryist folks, because we too have to figure out where and when does this thing called "individual" begin. But the first step in making sure you are logically consistent is to be as intellectually honest on the topic as possible and then seeing if through that brutally honest lens, can you still maintain your consistency and rigidity of stance?

There's pro-abortion and anti-abortion. Those are the two stances because that is te only "choice" being attacked or defended, it is the only "women's health" topic under discussion, and it is the only honest way to portray each side. Everyone is pro-life, because duh, human nature. The pro-abortion folks aren't pro-death for the whole world, just unborn babies. I guarantee in every other possible way, they are resolutely pro-life. And everyone is pro-choice. Even the anti-abortion folks are most likely pro-choice on virtually every other topic out there, by default. It is around one specific, very narrow, focused thing that this central argument of our time revolves - abortion. You are either for it, or against it. Pro-abortion or anti-abortion. Period.

And because I cannot define for others where "individual with rights" begins, nor can I force my morality on others, I must acquiesce to the one entity in the problem we all agree is the individual, which is the mother. I must stand aside and let her do as she wishes regarding this one specific thing. That makes my stance "for" or "pro" this one thing, thus, it makes me pro-abortion by definition and simple logic.

Ugly, but intellectually honest and straightforward. I accept it, grudgingly, as I do a ton of other repugnant behaviors a fellow human can engage in that I personally find distasteful in the extreme, but do not in fact cause me any harm or obligation.

Two sides, kids - pro or anti. The thing is question is abortion. You are for women being able to have this procedure, or you are against it. Pick one and be intellectually honest about it. Period, end of line.
 
Old 05-20-2019, 07:23 AM
 
8,196 posts, read 2,823,491 times
Reputation: 4478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie53 View Post
Science is the truth. Fetuses do not think or feel or care what happens to them and if you think they do you need to see a psychiatrist because you are delusional.
You can attack me, but you can't change the truth by citing science. Science is man concocted and can be used to manipulate the mindset of the public. (AOC for example)

Mankind is free to, I assume there's no law against it(except for suicide maybe, mutilate their own bodies and take their own, lives but there is no right to kill another human except in self defense or penalty for murder crime. Those who are trying to diminish the value of that life and say it isn't a life is using manipulation and control to convince the public to support abortion "rights".
 
Old 05-20-2019, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
24,260 posts, read 14,148,442 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
You highlight such a great point here ....

On the one hand, we have the left shouting in outrage over victims of a school shooting .... claiming that those “righties” who support the 2nd Amendment are virtually complicit in such tragedies. Apparently, that leftist compassion for the children doesn’t extend to the Million + babies aborted annually.... as they immediately condemn the righties for their pro-life position. My oh my, what a duplicitous group we have on the left.

The ghoulish mindset of those in New York who recently passed legislation to make legal the abortion of babies right up to moments before birth see no hypocrisy in their cognitive dissonance .... probably because they are drowning in it.

Perhaps, as the left condemns as “draconian” some states who are moving to make abortion entirely illegal, they ought to instead recognize how their “extremism” leads to such extremism in response?

This is indeed what this abortion debate has devolved to. Extremists versus Extremists, lost in this is any measure of rationality or morality.

Those that support late term abortions .... which is a gruesome display of complete immorality and a total absence of basic human compassion and dignity, have, by their own actions, encouraged such response.
Maybe you should read the actual NY law, and not some spin. The law would not allow elective abortion up to birth, it would only allow abortion after viability for lack of fetal viability or when it's necessary to protect the womans life or health.
 
Old 05-20-2019, 07:32 AM
 
11,412 posts, read 7,758,917 times
Reputation: 21922
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzarama View Post
If you're serious, that idea puts you in the Ridiculous Solution Club, along with the abstinence for all crew.
Not ridiculous at all. If the state can legislate what a women can or can’t do with her body, why not with a man’s body? If the goal is to prevent unwanted pregnancies and therefore abortion, why not use the best defense we have?

Vasectomy prevents pregnancy better than any other form of birth control. (And no, abstinence is NOT a form of birth control. It’s the total avoidance of sex hence no BC needed.) If preventing abortion is what anti choicers want, why not vasectomy for all? If a man wants kids, he can bank some sperm.
 
Old 05-20-2019, 07:39 AM
 
8,196 posts, read 2,823,491 times
Reputation: 4478
Quote:
posted by Volobjectitarian

And because I cannot define for others where "individual with rights" begins, nor can I force my morality on others,
Whether or not one can define when individual rights begin or not, we know that a human life grows from conception to the point that it is birthed from the body.

As I have said before, dead things don't grow, if it isn't a life, why would one need to do anything but go on about their busy lives as usual?

This is about human compassion for one another. We take care of our children. There are programs and medical care available for any child who needs it here in America regardless of ability to pay.

For anyone to use that as an argument is ridiculous.

ETA
The fact that there are some who are pro life, yet believe it is extreme to be pro life of the unborn human from conception, shows us how indoctrinated we have become by abortion proponents.
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