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All a man has to do is keep his semen from entering the uterus by using a condom. A woman has to go through a helluva lot more red tape to prevent unplanned pregnancy. Also, vasectomies are reversible.
Women also need to see an MD to obtain a script for BC that has potential side effects and health consequences.
Alas, at the end of the day both males and femails have EQUAL responsibility to prevent contraception if that is an unwanted outcome.
Why is it existence of a heartbeat rather than point of viability?
Is it morally correct to put a nonviable fetus which has never been outside the womb or had independent thought or free will before a live woman who can make decisions and has awareness and understanding?
Mammal life is not the same as plant life.
Human life has to be defined somehow and "point of viability" makes no sense when determining that a human is dead. Defining life is not something that is restricted to the question of abortion. For example, a 90 year old is no longer alive, long after the point of viability, when the natural heart beat stops.
What makes you so sure that a fetus with a brain and a heartbeat has no thought or brain function?
Women with awareness and understanding who can make decisions are capable of figuring out whether they are pregnant and making a decision about that pregnancy in 6 weeks. Women without awareness who cannot make decisions are the women who want late term abortion. That's not good enough. Women need to take more responsibility for their bodies and make timely decisions about pregnancy.
Women with awareness and understanding who can make decisions are capable of figuring out whether they are pregnant and making a decision about that pregnancy in 6 weeks.
You are obviously a man with absolutely no comprehension of a woman's cycles. I was so irregular when I was younger that it wasn't unusual for me to go six weeks without a period and then have one every three weeks for a few months in a row. Your arbitrary six week rule shows you have no idea what you're talking about here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke
Women without awareness who cannot make decisions are the women who want late term abortion. That's not good enough. Women need to take more responsibility for their bodies and make timely decisions about pregnancy.
And AGAIN, no doctor is performing late term abortions at the mother's whim. When will you guys stop perpetrating this lie?
Human life has to be defined somehow and "point of viability" makes no sense when determining that a human is dead. Defining life is not something that is restricted to the question of abortion. For example, a 90 year old is no longer alive, long after the point of viability, when the natural heart beat stops.
What makes you so sure that a fetus with a brain and a heartbeat has no thought or brain function?
Women with awareness and understanding who can make decisions are capable of figuring out whether they are pregnant and making a decision about that pregnancy in 6 weeks. Women without awareness who cannot make decisions are the women who want late term abortion. That's not good enough. Women need to take more responsibility for their bodies and make timely decisions about pregnancy.
Point of viability does not apply to living humans, it only applies to unborn, for a reason. Because before a certain point a fetus cannot live on its own, it needs the mother's body to survive. If it is born before a certain point it will die, before its body is formed enough to function properly. And even extremely premature babies who are born on the cusp of the point of survival cannot survive without extensive medical intervention. They would die without a tube breathing for them and feeding them and an incubator acting like a uterus to keep them warm. The only situation which is similar for a live person is when someone is brain dead or seriously injured in some way that leaves them incapacitated and incapable of making decisions, on tubes and machines to survive, for life. And in those circumstances, their family often choose to pull the plug if it is hopeless.
Humans are given full personhood status everywhere at birth. When they take a breath, even. Because there have been babies born dead after their mothers experienced a traumatic event like being shot or something, and the offender cannot be charged with murder of the baby because it never took a breath under many state laws. Michelle Wilkins's baby is an example; she is the woman who went to another woman's house while pregnant in 2015 to buy baby clothes off a Craigslist ad only to be attacked and have her baby cut from her. She survived, baby did not, but baby was born dead (autopsy found no breath was taken) and therefore not legally murdered.
Something that has never experienced the outside world, has not been born, and has not yet learned language cannot have meaningful thoughts or understand anything. They cannot even hear until a certain point in pregnancy. Their brains are developing for months. They are not even aware of their existence - likely not for some time after birth either. They do not know what it means to exist. They did not choose to exist, like they can't choose to keep existing or to cease to exist.
A lot of women do not find out they are pregnant until after 6 weeks. There can be many reasons for this, including having irregular periods or experiencing birth control failure. Only in a perfect world will women and men 1. use appropriate BC correctly and only in perfect world will it never fail, 2. will women know they are pregnant as early as possible, and 3. will all babies be wanted. We don't live in a perfect world, therefore these laws meant for them don't fit in real life.
You are obviously a man with absolutely no comprehension of a woman's cycles. I was so irregular when I was younger that it wasn't unusual for me to go six weeks without a period and then have one every three weeks for a few months in a row. Your arbitrary six week rule shows you have no idea what you're talking about here.
And AGAIN, no doctor is performing late term abortions at the mother's whim. When will you guys stop perpetrating this lie?
Six weeks is not arbitrary. That is when a fetal heart beat can be detected.
I don't accept the argument that female humans are a special sort of mammals that does not have a regular biological fertility cycle. Reading here, one gets the impression a monthly human cycle is a myth.
Regardless, there is really no excuse for women claiming that they are intelligent and capable, but when it comes to pregnancy, they know nothing and need months to figure it out.
I call the "pro-life movement" the "anti-choice movement."
But I don't use the terms "pro-fetus, anti-children; misogynists who want to punish women; theocratic nutjobs; hypocritical busybodies" because I think that many "pro-lifers" have good intentions.
Big deal, that's what You do. Go through this or any other abortion thread and you'll see how often choicers say those things about lifers.
Women should be able to make choices about what happens to their bodies.
No, this is the U.S where rich white people men AND women have the right to tell others what they can and cannot do with their bodies. Your thinking of those other countries in the world, this just goes to show you how free we are NOT in this country.
Yet let a rich senator, etc get his mistress pregnant and watch how fast she’s on the table get an abortion.
There’s the rub. Pro-lifers believe that a fetus is a real person with rights. They don’t accept the premise that a fetus is just part of the woman’s body.
If you can convince pro-lifers that a fetus is not actually a person, they won’t have any reason to oppose abortion anymore. Unfortunately, you will probably have difficulty, because *religion* is usually the basis for their belief that a fetus is a person.
I used to be pro-life myself, until I left religion. Then I realized that it was kind of silly to believe that a fetus was a person. Now I’m mostly pro-choice.
A fetus is the only body part that can grow and live on its own once at a certain age. Or are you suggesting it is a body part that stays attached forever?
Point of viability does not apply to living humans, it only applies to unborn, for a reason. Because before a certain point a fetus cannot live on its own, it needs the mother's body to survive. If it is born before a certain point it will die, before its body is formed enough to function properly. And even extremely premature babies who are born on the cusp of the point of survival cannot survive without extensive medical intervention. They would die without a tube breathing for them and feeding them and an incubator acting like a uterus to keep them warm. The only situation which is similar for a live person is when someone is brain dead or seriously injured in some way that leaves them incapacitated and incapable of making decisions, on tubes and machines to survive, for life. And in those circumstances, their family often choose to pull the plug if it is hopeless.
Humans are given full personhood status everywhere at birth. When they take a breath, even. Because there have been babies born dead after their mothers experienced a traumatic event like being shot or something, and the offender cannot be charged with murder of the baby because it never took a breath under many state laws. Michelle Wilkins's baby is an example; she is the woman who went to another woman's house while pregnant in 2015 to buy baby clothes off a Craigslist ad only to be attacked and have her baby cut from her. She survived, baby did not, but baby was born dead (autopsy found no breath was taken) and therefore not legally murdered.
Something that has never experienced the outside world, has not been born, and has not yet learned language cannot have meaningful thoughts or understand anything. They cannot even hear until a certain point in pregnancy. Their brains are developing for months. They are not even aware of their existence - likely not for some time after birth either. They do not know what it means to exist. They did not choose to exist, like they can't choose to keep existing or to cease to exist.
A lot of women do not find out they are pregnant until after 6 weeks. There can be many reasons for this, including having irregular periods or experiencing birth control failure. Only in a perfect world will women and men 1. use appropriate BC correctly and only in perfect world will it never fail, 2. will women know they are pregnant as early as possible, and 3. will all babies be wanted. We don't live in a perfect world, therefore these laws meant for them don't fit in real life.
Human life has a definition independent of a fetus: heartbeat. Fetal life is defined the same way: heartbeat. Human life is viable in the middle of the ocean if there is a boat. Without a boat, viability is still possible, but without a heartbeat there is no human life.
Six weeks is not arbitrary. That is when a fetal heart beat can be detected.
I don't accept the argument that female humans are a special sort of mammals that does not have a regular biological fertility cycle. Reading here, one gets the impression a monthly human cycle is a myth.
Regardless, there is really no excuse for women claiming that they are intelligent and capable, but when it comes to pregnancy, they know nothing and need months to figure it out.
This is completely absurd and a simple google search will prove your choice to not believe that wrong. PCOS is one condition that causes irregular periods. Women who are unhealthily thin also can lose their cycle. Actress Sophie Turner from Game of Thrones recently said in an interview that she stoped getting her period for a year because she was too thin. Hormonal imbalances can really screw with the body. BC itself can cause irregular or absent periods and if it fails, a woman may not know she is pregnant within 6 weeks.
A "normal," healthy body will experience a regular cycle. But there are many reasons one's body can function abnormally and alter that.
You sound misogynistic. Unsurprisingly.
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