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Old 05-20-2019, 10:08 PM
 
4,528 posts, read 1,190,955 times
Reputation: 2085

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
It is like the Nazi's Eastern Front for women in the Navy.
Well if a woman is going to do it she'd better be as tough as a WWII Russian front line female pilot or sniper. I don't think the Night Witches worried about some list they might have been on.
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Old 05-20-2019, 10:23 PM
 
Location: Back and Beyond
2,813 posts, read 2,719,711 times
Reputation: 6546
Do some (not all) women purposely enter these predominantly male positions because they secretly like and want the male attention? I'd say yes.

I hate to blame the "victim" here but going underwater with a bunch of dudes for months at a time is kind of asking to be rated by them. What did they expect, for guys to pretend they aren't guys and that they aren't there in very close proximity?

The only dumb thing these guys did was physically write/type it down. There's an informal verbal "ratings list" at any workplace in the entire world that has both male and female employees. It's called human nature.
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Old 05-20-2019, 10:28 PM
 
4,528 posts, read 1,190,955 times
Reputation: 2085
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6.7traveler View Post
Do some (not all) women purposely enter these predominantly male positions because they secretly like and want the male attention? I'd say yes.

I hate to blame the "victim" here but going underwater with a bunch of dudes for months at a time is kind of asking to be rated by them. What did they expect, for guys to pretend they aren't guys and that they aren't there in very close proximity?

The only dumb thing these guys did was physically write/type it down. There's an informal verbal "ratings list" at any workplace in the entire world that has both male and female employees. It's called human nature.
Maybe some do but most I know didn't. Being in a close space like a sub is different than other predominantly male careers though. I'm pretty tough and worked in a predominantly male career, but would never want to spend that much time under water with a bunch of dudes, for a whole host of reasons.
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,630 posts, read 49,275,273 times
Reputation: 19009
My last boat was the USS Alaska. From Navy Times articles it was among the first boats to get females onboard. At first it was only Supply officers or 'Chops'. The Navy had a difficult time getting females to volunteer for sub duty, so they were offered large cash bonuses. Then I read an article where they tracked 15 female chops on subs, and after they had completed one tour, they were asked to agree to stay onboard for a second tour, all 15 refused. They were offered guaranteed advancement and a cash bonus and all of those females refused to stay on subs.

Life on a sub is different. Within the first year onboard a crewmember must 'qualify' on that boat, to earn the submarine combat medal 'dolphins'. Each ship system must be memorized, every valve, its position and which valves must be operated depending on what the sub is doing. We start by going to the individual who is the system expert for that system and learning to draw each system. If you have difficulty visualizing a system, then you must hand-over-hand trace the entire system everywhere it goes through the sub, placing your hand on each valve. Then the system expert will test your knowledge, quizzing you. An individual may spend a lot of time crawling through cable runs and frame-bays tracing hydraulic pipes or ventilation ducts.

We are tested on each system. and then again by compartment. [ie, you are in the bow compartment when the engine room experiences flooding, what does the sub have to do to survive? What valves must change positions in the bow compartment? As the engine room is filling with water, what can you do in the bow compartment to assist the guys in the engine room?]

I have been onboard for flooding incidents, and I have seen fires underwater. Submarine crews train a lot every week for a wide selection of possible incidents. If the officers can stay out of the way, the crew can fix anything.

It sounds like on the Florida the chain of command has totally failed, nobody trusts the officers. I served on one boat that had that problem. The wardroom worked hard for a long time to develop that attitude among the crew. It does not happen overnight.
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