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View Poll Results: There is a fire at the fertility clinic. Your options are save one toddler or a container of 1,000 v
Save the child. 48 97.96%
Save the container of 1,000 viable human embryos. 1 2.04%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-22-2019, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Houston
22,388 posts, read 11,525,123 times
Reputation: 9005

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Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
What I stated earlier is what was commonly stated in biology textbooks with no need for further clarification. Itís sad you canít just admit a human life is being terminated and resort to alternative facts.

In 1971 when I was in 8th grade life began at conception and CO2 was a greenhouse gas. Neither of those facts have changed just because abortion and climate change have become divisive political issues.
I support the right to choose but I ainít a science denier.
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Old 05-22-2019, 05:25 PM
 
12,561 posts, read 4,743,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
What I stated earlier is what was commonly stated in biology textbooks with no need for further clarification. Itís sad you canít just admit a human life is being terminated and resort to alternative facts.

In 1971 when I was in 8th grade life began at conception and CO2 was a greenhouse gas. Neither of those facts have changed just because abortion and climate change have become divisive political issues.
Life begins at conception. However a tumor is also "alive". The question is when do you have a human person. Without cognition or feeling it is not a human.
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Old 05-22-2019, 05:29 PM
 
16,567 posts, read 14,005,185 times
Reputation: 20518
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
What I stated earlier is what was commonly stated in biology textbooks with no need for further clarification. Itís sad you canít just admit a human life is being terminated and resort to alternative facts.

In 1971 when I was in 8th grade life began at conception and CO2 was a greenhouse gas. Neither of those facts have changed just because abortion and climate change have become divisive political issues.
Since you believe life begins at conception are you against IUDs and other birth controls that may allow for conception of an embryo but not implantation?

What about embryos conceived but not implanted? Should we force IVF patients to pay for those embryos to be brought to term rather than being destroyed?
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Old 05-22-2019, 05:31 PM
 
16,567 posts, read 14,005,185 times
Reputation: 20518
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hightower72 View Post

Aussiehoff linked an article on this earlier
, which I guess almost no-one bothered to read.

When faced with a dilemma like this, a pro-life advocate might consider:

Who has more capacity for suffering and pain?
Who has more developed social bonds and family ties?
Who stands a better chance of surviving the fire during rescue?
Who has a better chance of survival once saved?
Who is likely to benefit more from being saved?

None of these criteria concern the ethics of personhood, but they can clearly influence your decision in who to save.
Lets play the same game between a woman who is pregnant and an embryo

Who has more capacity for suffering and pain? A woman forced to give birth against her will.
Who has more developed social bonds and family ties? A woman forced to give birth against her will.
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Old 05-22-2019, 06:13 PM
 
6,266 posts, read 3,381,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
science can preserve sperm, and science can preserve embyos, but at this point in time science cannot preserve the eggs.
Not quite. Egg freezing has been available for some time.
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Old 05-22-2019, 06:48 PM
 
Location: New York
1,302 posts, read 243,456 times
Reputation: 947
I vote this to be one of the top 10 worst polls of the year.


Ridiculous premise entirely to start a fight, which obviously worked.



Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Lets play the same game between a woman who is pregnant and an embryo

Who has more capacity for suffering and pain? A woman forced to give birth against her will.
Who has more developed social bonds and family ties? A woman forced to give birth against her will.

Was the woman forced to have unprotected sex?
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Old 05-23-2019, 12:17 AM
 
4,351 posts, read 5,558,781 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist View Post


Was the woman forced to have unprotected sex?

Was the MAN forced to have unprotected sex? You seem to be saying pregnancy is 100% the responsibility of the woman. What is the punishment for irresponsible impregnation of a woman?
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Old 05-23-2019, 01:56 AM
 
9,230 posts, read 10,858,603 times
Reputation: 9841
Quote:
Originally Posted by AguaDulce View Post
The issue is that many pro-lifers believe that embryos feel pain just like a child does.
Not the way I read the hypothetical question at all. It wasn't about either the one child or the 1,000 viable embryos "feeling pain". If one truly believes that thousands of fertilized eggs are absolutely the same (have personhood) as a toddler, or even a dozen toddlers, they'd struggle with the fire situation. Nobody except some nut wouldn't run for that born, breathing child over petri dish fertilized eggs. And the anti-abortion people (fertilized egg is exactly the same thing as a born baby) know damned well they'd try to save that child over the fertilized eggs.
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Old 05-23-2019, 02:39 AM
 
1,285 posts, read 793,228 times
Reputation: 776
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Lets play the same game between a woman who is pregnant and an embryo

Who has more capacity for suffering and pain? A woman forced to give birth against her will.
Who has more developed social bonds and family ties? A woman forced to give birth against her will.
Unless you're talking about obstetric dilemmas, what you have in mind here would just end up upsetting everyone.

If social connectedness grants authority over life, death and the classification of personhood, any control you would want to exert over the rights of the unborn would just as easily be overruled by those higher up in the social pecking order.

Would you also want to live in a dystopic social order where emotional incontinence and facebook popularity determine your status?


Last edited by Hightower72; 05-23-2019 at 04:05 AM..
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Old 05-23-2019, 03:47 AM
 
Location: Houston
22,388 posts, read 11,525,123 times
Reputation: 9005
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Life begins at conception. However a tumor is also "alive". The question is when do you have a human person. Without cognition or feeling it is not a human.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Since you believe life begins at conception are you against IUDs and other birth controls that may allow for conception of an embryo but not implantation?

What about embryos conceived but not implanted? Should we force IVF patients to pay for those embryos to be brought to term rather than being destroyed?
I already said I support a womanís right to choose to kill that life within her womb. Iím not going to be ignorant and pretend itís not a life she is killing.

You can actually be pro choice without being a moron. A woman should have the right to kill the life in her womb.
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