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Old 05-22-2019, 10:51 PM
Status: "Trumpism is a mental disorder" (set 18 days ago)
 
9,420 posts, read 17,402,227 times
Reputation: 10421

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dashrendar4454 View Post
Seems like something that wouldnít hold up in court and goes against the Constituikn
Better check that Russian to English translator.
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Old 05-22-2019, 10:53 PM
 
44 posts, read 7,188 times
Reputation: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
4th & 5th Amendments.
Government cannot just go snooping in a private citizens personal papers and effects.
The 2 years he has been President, they have full access to and should as GOVERNMENT oversight.
That is why we the people only allow a few select people with the authority to secure our papers and effects.
You people are Marxist Commies.
4th and 5th amendment only apply to private property. Tax information that has been shared is not private property of the individual. The 4th and 5th amendment does not allow the government to go after Trump directly for his tax returns, but Congress can get them from other agencies and third parties (under the Constitution). There's another law that applies specifically to the IRS. IRS cannot share tax information without consent. However, there's a clause of oversight where Congress can request the tax information. Also, New York is not the IRS, so the law wouldn't apply.
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Old 05-22-2019, 10:56 PM
 
Location: 20 years from now
5,501 posts, read 5,694,195 times
Reputation: 3434
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post
Mueller provided the roadmap and the Congress is obliged to follow it...
He didn't provide any "road map" That's a Rachel Maddow/Wolf Blitzer/Don Lemon/CNN/MSNBC talking point. He recommended "No new indictments" based on the evidence, period. He didn't have to "exonerate" him . Face it the dems are just embarrassed that the report didn't give them what they wanted, so now they continue to fish for anything to cover up for that very fact.

My guess is, even if the Dems do retrieve his taxes--they won't find anything substantial to warrant a criminal charge or an impeachment (if it was there, Mueller would have found it)--they'll be embarrassed by that too--but take something very minute and create bad press with it for as long as they possibly can going into the election.
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Old 05-22-2019, 10:57 PM
 
26,297 posts, read 17,198,522 times
Reputation: 10273
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog View Post
Better check that Russian to English translator.
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:04 PM
 
26,297 posts, read 17,198,522 times
Reputation: 10273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonyafd View Post
The Italians have the perfect word for his character; imbroglione. It means a cheat, a crook, and an imposter.
Totally accurate. Trump has been a liar, grifter and racketeer for his entire adult life and probably longer.
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:14 PM
 
921 posts, read 365,769 times
Reputation: 1711
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshim View Post
He recommended "No new indictments" based on the evidence, period.
Serious question here: Did you say ďperiodĒ there so that you wouldnít have to acknowledge Muellerís explicit statement that he could not indict Trump for obstruction because of a DOJ policy against indicting a sitting president? If so, thatís pretty disingenuous, and you should ask yourself how strong your argument is if you feel compelled to leave out key information.

If you didnít realize that Mueller actually found the obstruction because you didnít read the report itself, Iíll give you a pass. Most of the right-wing posters here get their information filtered through many layers of BS.
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:54 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
4,760 posts, read 6,407,764 times
Reputation: 5236
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog View Post
That's intelligent.

The economy is massively unstable right now. You know who pays import tariffs? You do. We all do. It's a tax whose funds are distributed to American companies. Ironic as hell considering Trump does this while railing on socialism, because that EXACTLY what tariffs are. Socialism. Oh, and he wants to bail out farmers now with a few billion of our money. Yep, socialism again.

The Federal Deficit is the biggest in history and growing faster than ever. Thanks to tax cuts for the rich and for corporations, who by the way didn't need any breaks.

And bully for you, your taxes went down. MINE WENT UP.

Good for you for picking up after your fellow boaters. We do too. You fish? How do you like Trump gutting the clean water act so that coal companies can dump mining waste in streams and kill the fish. You good with that? Ever go to the coast? You do know that Federal judges had to stop Trump's ambitious plans to allow off-shore drilling in marine sanctuaries. Right? https://insideclimatenews.org/news/2...ng-nepa-ruling

Here's an article by the National Geographic with 15 ways that Trump is impacting the environment. Please have a read and we can talk more. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/e...d-environment/

Open borders is a right-wing lie. You can't show one Democrat lawmaker calling for any such thing. By all accounts the illegals who have made it across the border contribute more than they take anyway. Unlike the fascist scumbag you worship.

Since you haven't been keeping up, there are now accounting firm records that show Trump has fleeced tax payers out of millions by undervaluing assets, while at the same time committing bank fraud by inflating those same assets. Got that? Accounting records. So spare us the witch hunt BS. That's why the courts are granting a subpoena to get the rest of the accounting firm's records. They are most likely in big trouble as well.

And Trump moving huge amounts of money through Deutche Bank who does business with Russia. Given Trump's absolute refusal to divest himself of his business during his presidency, aren't you just the teeniest bit curious to know what the hell those are about? Come on now, don't lie.

So yeah, every minute that Trump is tied up in investigations is a minute where he's not f'ing over the planet.



I'll do my best to address all of this. You got me kind of liking you with that boating talk.


Yes, I understand that tariffs increase costs to the end user, us. Do I like it? No. Do I understand the reason? Yes. Sometimes things need to hurt more before they get better. I think we could all benefit from better trade deals in the long term even if we have to suffer a little in the short term. Odd methods but effective so far.



You say tariffs are a tax paid to American companies. I'd like you to show me some proof of that. Direct proof, not some roundabout theory, please. The last Civics class I took was in the early 90s, so they may have updated their textbooks since then.



Environment...I fish. I apparently ONLY fish. I don't do the catching part. If I did, I wouldn't eat my catch since my local lakes have had a PCB warning for years. Well before Trump. Well before Obama. I would like to see you cite law where any company can now dump any waste where they were previously unable to do so. I've not seen this.



Your NatGeo article, point by point.



1 If the US doesn't lead in climate change, what? Other countries pollute more? Compared to what? It was a hole we tossed money into.



2 You want power? Sometimes goals can't be met. Agree or disagree, coal still runs power plants.


3 Crap in, crap out. If you have a screw-up you now have to match the lowest-polluting facility out there? On the surface, that sounds like a great way to run power bills through the roof.



4 State's rights. Not seeing a problem here. We don't need a monolithic government organization that imposes a one-size-fits-all policy when, well, it doesn't.



5 54 miles per gallon. Are you kidding? Yuo would have to eliminate the most popular vehicle types in America in favor of the least-popular vehicle types. Essentially, you would eliminate trucks and SUVs. There really isn't much other way to do it. Technology hits runs and lulls. If you want a $80,000 Camry, this is how you get it.



6 Nothing changed. Trump said drop the sea level issue, HUD re-adopted it. I'm not seeing much of an issue here. If sea level was that big of an issue, banks wouldn't fund such projects.



7 Trump told EPA and ACE to review where their jurisdiction is and isn't. They did. EPA and ACE made determinations. He didn't "take" anything away from anyone.



8 If we're talking about Trump, I don't see him mentioned in this one. NOAA said this wouldn't violate the MMPA. This one needs to have an honest, no-BS hearing. No politics.



9 Based on your article, I have no idea of the expanse of the operations that would impact the sage grouse. Somehow, I don't think Trump made the time to say F the sage grouse. I really think this is a bit of a reach.



10 Only reading your linked article and not following further links, I do have to wonder where our consideration for animals ends. With enviro-nuts using environmental studies, impacts on certain species, etc, as a weapon, I do have to question where we say "this is enough". I don't mean to trivialize the issue, but where do we stop?


11 Seriously? All this "green" energy from windmills kills how many birds annually? I get it. Unintended consequences. Do you want air conditioning or birds? I'll venture a guess and say more people want AC than they care about birds. This is a move to allow more of that coveted "green energy".



12 Reading a little further into it, beyond your link, using The Atlantic as a source, it seems like Obama used his "pen and phone" to step into a fight that wasn't his to step into. Obama seeme to have said F it and went nuclear.



13 Logging. Ugh. Most logging operations involve replanting or regrowth. "The decision was billed as wildfire prevention, though environmental groups say it ignores the role climate change plays in starting wildfires." This is well below the level of writing I expect from NatGeo and is likely one of MANY reasons they are no longer held in as high of a regard as once upon a time ago. (Apologies for poor sentence structure there) You need to choose here. Global warming or forest fires?


14 Oh, boy. Trump drops climate change as a NatSec threat. Stop chopping the numbers and we can talk. If a cop lies one time, every case he's brought can be appealed. "Climate scientists" have been caught in more than one lie. This would make me believe they cannot be trusted, just the same as police, until proven otherwise. No doubt this will spark debate.



15 Who gets charged when a company violate an EPA law? Who goes to jail? I get it, really, that someone needs to be held accountable for EPA violations. Who do you hold accountable? Who goes to jail? Bob at the plant? How about Jane, in payroll? You'll be hard-pressed to hold an individual accountable, even a few people. Now, if you make the fines have teeth; the teeth that **** of shareholders...that gets **** done. And people fired. And policy changed. It is MUCH easier to go after a company civilly rather than criminally. The burden of proof is much lower.
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Old 05-23-2019, 12:19 AM
 
Location: 20 years from now
5,501 posts, read 5,694,195 times
Reputation: 3434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partial Observer View Post
Serious question here: Did you say “period” there so that you wouldn’t have to acknowledge Mueller’s explicit statement that he could not indict Trump for obstruction because of a DOJ policy against indicting a sitting president? If so, that’s pretty disingenuous, and you should ask yourself how strong your argument is if you feel compelled to leave out key information.

If you didn’t realize that Mueller actually found the obstruction because you didn’t read the report itself, I’ll give you a pass. Most of the right-wing posters here get their information filtered through many layers of BS.
I said "period" because Mueller specifically said that he made "no recommendations for new indictments." That's pretty much it in a nutshell. In regards to the 2000 memo written by Mueller about Indicting a sitting President, it's pretty disingenuous to infer that that specific policy indirectly suggest that he would have been indicted if not for that policy-- when, in the report, he clearly stated that he did not have sufficient evidence to conclude that he had in fact obstructed justice, but could not "exonerate" him either. Also keep in mind Mueller did not recommend additional indictments for people within Trump's inner Administration for that very crime as well; let me guess--they were covered under that policy too?? If not, why hasn't anyone else been brought in as a coconspirator? Or was Trump just running around the WH barking orders to "obstruct" the investigation?


Either way, Trump falls more into the category of "unsubstantiated" which pretty much clears him; Democrats like Nancy Pelosi, MSNBC, CNN and Friday evening Bill Maher audience members interpret this impossible standard--for almost anyone to meet--as a " a trail of bread crumbs" ...and their lemmings swallow it up, and continue to manufacture "investigations" in order to keep their voters from cannibalizing one another.

BTW, cut the crap, you didn't read the 448 pages of the report--you read and heard the interpretation, blurbs and hot takes of the report in your left wing enclave of soundbites provided by late night comedians and commentators who do so for the short attention spans of their audience.

Last edited by itshim; 05-23-2019 at 12:29 AM..
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Old 05-23-2019, 12:27 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
4,760 posts, read 6,407,764 times
Reputation: 5236
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post
Totally accurate. Trump has been a liar, grifter and racketeer for his entire adult life and probably longer.



Show proof.



I know you like that whole line that you repeat, well, because you've posted it at least once. You seem so sure of your beliefs, why don't you show some proof? Or is Schiff holding it for you?


If innocent until proven guilty is the law of the land, and you make those claims time and time again but can't prove them, I'd say you're a liar.



Put up or shut up.
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Old 05-23-2019, 12:31 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
4,760 posts, read 6,407,764 times
Reputation: 5236
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
We should adjust the rule of law to make tax disclosure by Presidential candidates mandatory.



Then lobby to pass a law to that effect. Until then, you don't get anyone's filing because you don't like the guy.








ETA: Before I get accused of being a Trump fawner, I'm sick and tired of this crusade that has come up empty time and time again. Even if there was real proof of a crime, I don't think you'd be able to get too many people to care after the last two years of Mueller investigations and daily bloviating about Trump's supposed guilt. It has all been opinion and wishes at this point.
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