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Old 12-20-2006, 01:33 PM
 
Location: France
1 posts, read 1,664 times
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Like other Western countries, the US does not have a "health system", it has a "sickness system", i,e, you only get help when you are sick (and that help usually makes you MORE sick!).

Given that medical doctors are now the LEADING cause of death, perhaps it's time to consider alternatives - like traditional therapies that WORK?

Brian
http://www.natural-health-information-centre.com
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Old 12-20-2006, 02:00 PM
 
211 posts, read 219,964 times
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Advertise your snake oil elsewhere.
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Old 12-20-2006, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,189 posts, read 24,491,219 times
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I'll offer some snake oil. As a former public health advocate, without much portfolio, I do strongly believe we need health care reforms in this country.

Years ago, one of the health think tanks (reputable) did devise a reasonable system, however, what with one thing and another, people who think a reform constitutes a threat to their social and political system, it was ignored and voted it out of existence.

Prevention has never been a strong part of our system, and hence, we have high costs for aftercare and medical procedures. Record-keeping of previous procedures are often poorly or not kept, and people are offered more and more tests and fewer health solutions--thereby raising costs (1).

If prevention was routine, for all those in the States, we'd have fewer costs across the board. Yearly or bi-annual exams can catch something that might ultimately develop into a chronic or acute problem. Chronic and acute often constitute high health care costs, many of which extend beyond our present health care deductibles (that is for those with a plan).

It is unconscionable for anyone to pay more than a hundred or two for health care for a family let alone for an individual. If a pooled and controlled insurance program was devised, fair and I emphasize fair, standards are set for prevention and proper medical treatment costs can decrease.

Monitoring un-warranted lawsuits, and controlling the escalation of advertised benefits to sue would also reduce medical insurance and bring the cost of doctors visits down dramatically (2).

Insurance companies should be monitored, and not be the beneficiaries of the system, but rather be the advocates for better health care and lower premiums (3). Again it is disgraceful that a health care insurance company profits while many go without proper health care.

However, these are seen as "hand-outs" by some, and some of these same people often are the hardest hit by sudden illness and loss of health care.
Regulated premiums, endorsement of prevention, routine medical record transfer, follow up care and a severe reduction in unnecessary lawsuits could prove successful and less expensive than the costs we all experience with the existing system.

Also, it is imperative to provide full health care for those unable to cough up premiums---why? A sick or unhealthy society makes for poor workers, increases unemployment, undermines the community as a whole, often causes wide disparities that leads to other societal consequences and can create epidemic and in some cases, pandemic outbreaks (such as the re-emerging, uncontrollable TB).

Just my thoughts after a good cup of coffee and watching the snow fall down all around me



Quote:
Originally Posted by TNLove View Post
Advertise your snake oil elsewhere.
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Old 12-20-2006, 03:06 PM
 
504 posts, read 1,620,713 times
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I have a friend who makes 9.25 an hour and he has no health care insurance, he is also 53 years old with arthritis, he can not get insurance and afford it. If he gets very sick he misses work, where he does not get paid, basically a very crappy job, but until he feels better he can't go and look for another job and because he can't wear his bottom dentures finding another job would be impossible.This guy used to have a good job and raised 3 good kids. The only thing he can do is go to the emergency room and they will treat him for an emergency not the other problems he has. He can quit work, apply for SSD and then be eligible for the county medical program, but then he would become homeless.
Here is another example, in my neighborhood a family moved in with a Mama with 4 little girls, a Daddy, and the Daddy's Mom[ Grand Ma} and stepfather and thier 3 adopted now teenage kids. The only one who works out of the home is the stepfather, he does not have a good job. This is now a year later, Babies Daddy has moved out, but his two other little girls have moved in without Mommy, two other small children are here now, more grandkids, one teenage girl and one teenage boy grandkids.
Grandma gets SSI, because two of her adopted[from her daughter} kids are bipolar they also get ssi and also a john mc cay scholorship{SIC}for children with mental problems. All the kids under 12 got toys from Salvation Army and quite a lot of food from the food banks. One of the girls 13 is from a daughter that recently died, she too is getting benefits including medicaid, for a while they had her two teenage brothers who because of behavior issues are now in foster care, due to be back in January. All of the kids come from the grandmothers children, so she has 12 grandchildren living there. The police are there a lot, along with various social workers and a probation officer. One daughter is dead, one daughter and her boyfriend in jail they had 4 children not all boyfriends, one daughter in Texas fostering two other grandchildren and one son cruising the streets looking to become someone elses Babys Daddy. This is what it breaks down, 4 little girls under seven, two little girls about 4 and 5, one little boy about 2 one little boy about 3, 3 teenagers, two boys, one girl, one teenager about 17, one teenager about 13 whoops that 13 lost count. The grandmother, stepfather, and the mother of the 4 little girls.
Everyone has medicaid except for the last two tiny kids that just arrived, the stepfather , I do not know about the mother of the girls. This is medicaid not medicare, so yes I think something needs to be done. I believe because of health care benefits companies discriminate when hiring older people or people that they think have a lot of children, or health issues even though they are not supposed to know.
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Old 12-20-2006, 03:16 PM
 
211 posts, read 219,964 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheroad View Post
Also, it is imperative to provide full health care for those unable to cough up premiums---why? A sick or unhealthy society makes for poor workers, increases unemployment, undermines the community as a whole, often causes wide disparities that leads to other societal consequences and can create epidemic and in some cases, pandemic outbreaks (such as the re-emerging, uncontrollable TB).
I think we need to cut off services for illegals, they are burdening our system.

What I don't think is fair is that we should have to provide coverage for those that can't afford it.

Why should the working have to pay for both insurance for them and others?
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Old 12-20-2006, 03:20 PM
 
211 posts, read 219,964 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexander59 View Post
I believe because of health care benefits companies discriminate when hiring older people or people that they think have a lot of children, or health issues even though they are not supposed to know.
This is what pisses me off. Hardworking Joe American (20 years down -- Juan Americano) cannot afford insurance and works his ass off; where-as, some "Baby Moma" in the ghetto living off public housing/ebt/welfare/and a host of other services doesn't pay a thing.

People who continuously pump out kids they can't afford to live off the system should be forcibly sterilized.

Maybe socialized medicine, or a form of, is the answer. Either way, we pick up the tab for illegals, the unworking, the jailed, etc... perhaps those that refuse work should be cut off totally?

I think it should be a requirement to have a 40 hour a week job to be eligible for any public assistance. I hate it when I'm infront of someone with hordes of food at the grocery store, expensive meats, crab legs, etc and then they whip out an EBT card while talking on a $200 cell phone.
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Old 12-20-2006, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,189 posts, read 24,491,219 times
Reputation: 3826
I don't think anyone should be allowed to be sick and untreated.

I'll pay your share for the uninsured, the illegals and the man with arthritis that Alexander talked about.

You just vote for my plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNLove View Post
I think we need to cut off services for illegals, they are burdening our system.

What I don't think is fair is that we should have to provide coverage for those that can't afford it.

Why should the working have to pay for both insurance for them and others?
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Old 12-20-2006, 03:29 PM
 
211 posts, read 219,964 times
Reputation: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheroad View Post
I don't think anyone should be allowed to be sick and untreated.

I'll pay your share for the uninsured, the illegals and the man with arthritis that Alexander talked about.
People say things like "health care" are a basic human right, I don't understand it.

Why? Because.. What kind of "health care?" Hell, some countries still have Witch Doctors and never progressed to the type of medicine/technology in the West. What should "health care" be there?

What if the state cannot afford to treat the citizens for free?

Illegal aliens deserve no health care, they should not be here and they know the risks. It is taking services away from Americans and burdening the system and costing us billions.

What about some Baby Moma that sits around and has kids and makes no effort to work? A total drain, she doesn't deserve a dime.

I'm not opposed to health care but you should be required to work, and for government paid health care, you should be required to have a full time job.
I find it sick the amount of handouts we give to people who make no effort to work and "live off the system."
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Old 12-20-2006, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,189 posts, read 24,491,219 times
Reputation: 3826
Well, TNLove, I am going to hope that you are always employed, never without a home, and remain healthy all your life--oh, and don't get shipwrecked out of town

Happy Holidays.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNLove View Post
People say things like "health care" are a basic human right, I don't understand it.

Why? Because.. What kind of "health care?" Hell, some countries still have Witch Doctors and never progressed to the type of medicine/technology in the West. What should "health care" be there?

What if the state cannot afford to treat the citizens for free?

Illegal aliens deserve no health care, they should not be here and they know the risks. It is taking services away from Americans and burdening the system and costing us billions.

What about some Baby Moma that sits around and has kids and makes no effort to work? A total drain, she doesn't deserve a dime.

I'm not opposed to health care but you should be required to work, and for government paid health care, you should be required to have a full time job.
I find it sick the amount of handouts we give to people who make no effort to work and "live off the system."
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Old 12-20-2006, 04:09 PM
 
112 posts, read 51,302 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgia View Post
One thing that will solve much of the Insurance / Affordable Health Care situation, which will never happen is the "removal" of government programs and tort reform.

It is a historical proven fact that Socialism has not nor will ever work, either in medicine nor anything else. When beaucracy grows, quality suffers. Most complain about our medical "system" however, it is the best in the world thus the influx of foreign parties looking for cures.

The issues facing the general public are anti-productive, regulative laws written by politicians and the American Ambulance Chaser, woops, Bar Association.

There are many cases that rank into the 1,000's. Today we have doctors leaving practice due to E&O malpractice coverage being unaffordable. The average OB/GYN can face annual premiums exceeding $70,000 per year just to fend off parasitical lawyers. Doctors getting sued for being unpleasant, doctors being sued for small infractions. Granted there are some quack's out there, but in the past before countersuits by lawyers they were removed from duty.

As I said there are many examples: The one I like to use is the Breast enhancement silicone implant suit. Remember, the doctors being sued, the manufacturer being sued, all for "voluntary" surgeries. What was the verdict. Doctors out of practice, though many were very good. Your and my insurance rates going through the roof to pay settlements in the billions, etc.
But what was the overall end result? The women received maybe a couple thousand each, which was "taxed" by the government, and a lawyer that became so rich that he built a new law building, bought a professional baseball team, even paid to help build a new stadium. Oh yes, even gave thousands to re-elect his local Senator and Congressman to even more terms to assist those of his ilk.

Going back, should Medicade be extended. Yes or no opinion does not matter. It WILL be. So will total Socialized Medical care. It's coming, and there is nothing we can do about it. Both Parties, which today they are one in the same want it. The ABA wants it, and the schmo's on the receiving end can face further declining care and waiting lists a mile long. Don't worry though, you can be sure our Government beaucrats and top dog lawyers will still have care that is second to none. Yet, one more example of the War against the Middle Class.

Good Luck
Great post, my sentiments exactly. Hope your wrong on the Socialized Medical Care.
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