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Old 06-13-2019, 04:18 PM
 
4,067 posts, read 1,551,316 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Yeah, glad you cleared that up although it’d be a lot more fun (for me) if you were talking about forcing people to leave.

In any case, no one is leaving, and no one is coming here from SA. Ever.
lol - "Keyboard Kommandos" on here are a dime a dozen (or in some cases, 6 cents a dozen)

And folks are leaving & coming here - the link is to a 4 year old article

https://businesstech.co.za/news/gene...-last-5-years/
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Old 06-13-2019, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,749 posts, read 4,433,950 times
Reputation: 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
It’s a mere convenience that you’re claiming to care about what happened in Rwanda. It’s simply not believable.

In any case, let’s say that US pressure was the predominant prime mover in making SA ditch apartheid. So what? Are you then saying that in hindsight, we should’ve promoted apartheid? Please elucidate so we can understand where you’re coming from here. What was the position of the United States supposed to be?

But again, you’re missing the crux of my point. The United States has caused untold misery in many places with the pressure they’ve put on nation states. What do we owe Iran? What do we owe Guatemala? What do we owe The Congo? They were DIRECTLY wronged by American pressure. All those nations are in front of the line for some sort of aggrieved dispensation if any is to be given out. Why should SA leap over those nations?

I know and you know why you’re pushing this line...whites are being wronged and it shouldn’t be that way in your world. I get it and I don’t blame you per se. We live on a planet where whites are rarely on the other end of the gun, and it churns the stomach of whites to see the rabbit holding the firearm.

There is no role for us to play here. The UN can intervene. That’s what we pay dues for.
Quote:
it churns the stomach of whites to see the rabbit holding the firearm
Judging by their character not their color, they are not a rabbit.

Death By Tire Fire: A Brief History Of “Necklacing” In Apartheid South Africa

"Necklacing was a fate reserved for traitors. Few, if any, white men died with a car tire around necks. Instead, it would be members of the black community, usually ones who swore they were part of the fight for freedom but who had lost the trust of their friends."
__________
No one in their right mind would want to move to SA. Not from America they wouldn't. I know in America a person can find anything ... but nothing like that on a large scale, that I know of any way. We have our gangs, our cartels, our corrupt PD and our corrupt gov officials, for sure, and maybe out in the back woods of where ever, in the middle of a desert, or out in an ocean ... but televised for all to see and accept ... that is where people want to move to ... yea, not buying it. There is a whole other law of the land in SA, that can be brutal.
Quote:
The UN can intervene.
AfriForum farming wing takes farm murder issues to UN
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Old 06-13-2019, 11:27 PM
 
9,277 posts, read 4,270,448 times
Reputation: 11025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
Judging by their character not their color, they are not a rabbit.

Death By Tire Fire: A Brief History Of ďNecklacingĒ In Apartheid South Africa

"Necklacing was a fate reserved for traitors. Few, if any, white men died with a car tire around necks. Instead, it would be members of the black community, usually ones who swore they were part of the fight for freedom but who had lost the trust of their friends."
__________
No one in their right mind would want to move to SA. Not from America they wouldn't. I know in America a person can find anything ... but nothing like that on a large scale, that I know of any way. We have our gangs, our cartels, our corrupt PD and our corrupt gov officials, for sure, and maybe out in the back woods of where ever, in the middle of a desert, or out in an ocean ... but televised for all to see and accept ... that is where people want to move to ... yea, not buying it. There is a whole other law of the land in SA, that can be brutal.

AfriForum farming wing takes farm murder issues to UN
A lot of people forget or because so little reporting was done on it, didn't know, but good old Winnie Mandela was for necklacing and about as radical as they come.
The leftist press made her out to be a black Mother Theresa, but she was far from it.


`
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Old 06-13-2019, 11:37 PM
 
50,479 posts, read 26,667,876 times
Reputation: 15759
Quote:
Originally Posted by uggabugga View Post
naw, you'll just keep on sputtering.
Right..which is why I completely eviscerated your argument and you didnít come back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
A lot of people forget or because so little reporting was done on it, didn't know, but good old Winnie Mandela was for necklacing and about as radical as they come.
The leftist press made her out to be a black Mother Theresa, but she was far from it.


`
Necklacing?

Is that worse than invading a nation under false pretenses leading to thousands of deaths and the destruction of the nation...let alone a major refugee crisis?

Winnie Mandela? Lol...thatís nothing.
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Old 06-13-2019, 11:59 PM
 
50,479 posts, read 26,667,876 times
Reputation: 15759
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
Judging by their character not their color, they are not a rabbit.

Death By Tire Fire: A Brief History Of ďNecklacingĒ In Apartheid South Africa

"Necklacing was a fate reserved for traitors. Few, if any, white men died with a car tire around necks. Instead, it would be members of the black community, usually ones who swore they were part of the fight for freedom but who had lost the trust of their friends."
__________
No one in their right mind would want to move to SA. Not from America they wouldn't. I know in America a person can find anything ... but nothing like that on a large scale, that I know of any way. We have our gangs, our cartels, our corrupt PD and our corrupt gov officials, for sure, and maybe out in the back woods of where ever, in the middle of a desert, or out in an ocean ... but televised for all to see and accept ... that is where people want to move to ... yea, not buying it. There is a whole other law of the land in SA, that can be brutal.

AfriForum farming wing takes farm murder issues to UN
Okay. And?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
Wait, what

How does the poster above (presumably Buckeye77) have anything to do with me
Worse, why do you consider him honest, implying I am not

As to knowing "what that is all about", I use that for other things having nothing to do with race. For example, when Bill Maher did a show complaining about Democrats saying "if everything was Armageddon, then nothing was Armageddon", he sounded exactly like what I had said a few week before, when Pelosi kept on say the term over everything related to Trump, big and small.

I do not even know how much if at all we disagree about Iran, as you did not give a time parameter, so you could be going back pre-Shaw or after.
Regardless this is not a discussion about anything other than SA with the theft of land, violence and murders being based on race.
Use comparative analogies all you like (I use the same methods to get my point across at times), but lets not get into the weeds regarding other countries.

BTW - You never addressed my point/question regarding how you felt about America getting involved to bring down the Afrikaner government?


`
If you know history, I donít have to give you a time parameter. Whatís going on in Iran NOW can be traced back to our betrayal in 1953. But thatís just Iran. I listed many other countries that we screwed over and millions were killed as a result.

And yes i did address your point about us joining others in pressuring SA. I said that we were one of many nations that did so. Iím not buying your assertion that our pressure was the prime mover in forcing them to abandon Apartheid. But even if it was, so what? The only other alternative was to advocate apartheid, and you already said that we shouldnít have done that. Lest you say that we shouldíve remained neutral....which is the same as an endorsement.

How did I personally feel about it? I donít remember feeling anything about it at the time. My outlook wasnít as ecumenical at the time and even though I knew that SA was an apartheid state, Iíd just assumed that it would crash under its own weight. I knew enough to know that at the time, the Ghandi proclamation applied in SA as it did in India; 5 million whites could never rule over 25 million blacks in infinite perpetuity. I suspected that apartheid was gonna end in civil war, not in a political agreement.

But again, I donít care how it ended, nor do I care that the United States applied pressure. I feel much worse for Guatemala, Iran or El Salvador...nations that didnít deserve the raw deal they got by our interference.

SA is a victim of their own obstinance. They couldíve decided to share power when they had a stronger hand to make a deal that wouldíve given the white minority more power. The example of Rhodesia was right next door for them to see what happens when you hang on too long. They shouldíve agreed to share power BEFORE they were forced into a deal. Thatís how the game is played if you wanna win. But no, ...they declined.

Oh well. Itís a matter for the U.N. now.
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Old 06-14-2019, 12:05 AM
 
920 posts, read 1,015,091 times
Reputation: 749
Racist Afrikaners pushing myths....nothing to see here move along
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Old 06-14-2019, 12:15 AM
 
3,106 posts, read 3,339,013 times
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Actual numbers of murdered farmers appears to be down on figures observed. Not saying that the crime rate is anything but appalling, but most is black on black in the townships.
Being a fairly frequent visitor to that country, know many on both sides of the equation. Many whites having no intention yet on moving out, doing rather well, while others without the means to leave, often desperate to do so both for economic and safety reasons. I equally know a few foreigners that fell in love with this remarkable country and stayed on.
Obviously a country with such a disparity in wealth is going to experience severe problems. Just as obvious as a degree of hatred will exist on all sides. My take is all things considered with the dismal economy, massive unemployment, corruption and severe inequality, it has survived beyond many expectations. The comparison with 'old' Rhodesia, has been long anticipated but not come into fruition and many differences between over simplistic comparisons between the two.
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Old 06-14-2019, 01:04 AM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,749 posts, read 4,433,950 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Actual numbers of murdered farmers appears to be down on figures observed. Not saying that the crime rate is anything but appalling, but most is black on black in the townships.
Being a fairly frequent visitor to that country, know many on both sides of the equation. Many whites having no intention yet on moving out, doing rather well, while others without the means to leave, often desperate to do so both for economic and safety reasons. I equally know a few foreigners that fell in love with this remarkable country and stayed on.
Obviously a country with such a disparity in wealth is going to experience severe problems. Just as obvious as a degree of hatred will exist on all sides. My take is all things considered with the dismal economy, massive unemployment, corruption and severe inequality, it has survived beyond many expectations. The comparison with 'old' Rhodesia, has been long anticipated but not come into fruition and many differences between over simplistic comparisons between the two.
Quote:
Actual numbers of murdered farmers appears to be down on figures observed.
The authorities stopped collecting the data on farm murders in 08, I read in one publication on the topic. Besides they are not going to do anything about it, so why keep up with the data. No one gives a chit. There are other sources but they are problematic.
FACTSHEET: Statistics on farm attacks and murders in South Africa

Quote:
The problem with farm murder rate calculations

Two figures are needed to calculate a crime rate: the number of cases and the population affected.

The police’s latest statistics show that there were 62 farm murders in 2017/18.

According to the official definition, the victims could include people “residing on, working on or visiting farms and smallholdings”. Experts say that estimating this total population is difficult, if not impossible.

“It may be problematic to use an estimate of all people living on farms depending on what data is used for murders and attacks,” Gareth Newham, head of the crime and justice programme at the Institute for Security Studies, told Africa Check.

“It is likely that many of the figures for farm attacks and murders on farms collected by organised agricultural or the SAPS for that matter, would not contain all the attacks or murders of non-farmers.”

Until an accurate estimate of the number of people “residing on, working on or visiting farms and smallholdings” is released, it will not be possible to calculate a farm murder rate.

Calculating a murder rate for commercial farmers (those registered to pay value-added tax) is also difficult. The latest estimate for this population is from 2007. New estimates are expected to be released within the next year. However, no organisation has released data on the number of commercial farmers murdered in South Africa.
Quote:
Many whites having no intention yet on moving out, doing rather well, while others without the means to leave, often desperate to do so both for economic and safety reasons.
Some are going to Australia and others to Russia ... try again. Also someone did a survey asked people if they could leave, would they and where would they go to ...

Emigration data suggests how many South Africans want to leave the country
"It’s estimated South Africa would lose 16% of its skilled workers if citizens could pick and choose where they stayed. But what would all this mean in population numbers? In January 2018, countrymeters determined that 56 million people currently lived in South Africa.

Based on that figure, it can be estimated that SA would be 4.48 million people worse off, bringing the total population under the 52 million mark."
______________

They stay because they love it? I don't think so ...

Last edited by Ellis Bell; 06-14-2019 at 01:16 AM..
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Old 06-14-2019, 01:16 AM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,749 posts, read 4,433,950 times
Reputation: 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
Judging by their character not their color, they are not a rabbit.

Death By Tire Fire: A Brief History Of ďNecklacingĒ In Apartheid South Africa

"Necklacing was a fate reserved for traitors. Few, if any, white men died with a car tire around necks. Instead, it would be members of the black community, usually ones who swore they were part of the fight for freedom but who had lost the trust of their friends."
__________
No one in their right mind would want to move to SA. Not from America they wouldn't. I know in America a person can find anything ... but nothing like that on a large scale, that I know of any way. We have our gangs, our cartels, our corrupt PD and our corrupt gov officials, for sure, and maybe out in the back woods of where ever, in the middle of a desert, or out in an ocean ... but televised for all to see and accept ... that is where people want to move to ... yea, not buying it. There is a whole other law of the land in SA, that can be brutal.

AfriForum farming wing takes farm murder issues to UN
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Okay. And?
They are bringing the matter to them next week. I'm not holding my breath they'll do anything about it. you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Necklacing?

Is that worse than invading a nation under false pretenses leading to thousands of deaths and the destruction of the nation...let alone a major refugee crisis?

Winnie Mandela? Lol...thatís nothing.
The town that you live in, born and raised, decided that your are a traitor. No one from the outside came in and invaded, you just got flipped by your own people and sentenced to necklacing ... I don't know about you but, I would think that is pretty bad, when you can't trust the people you live around not to set you on fire in the courtyard.
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Old 06-14-2019, 12:15 PM
 
9,277 posts, read 4,270,448 times
Reputation: 11025
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post


Necklacing?

Is that worse than invading a nation under false pretenses leading to thousands of deaths and the destruction of the nation...let alone a major refugee crisis?

Winnie Mandela? Lol...thatís nothing.
What are talking about with invading a nation
If you are implying us sending troops, I have never called for that, just the opposite. But that does not mean we just ignore what is going on either.

The point about Winnie was to show how the leftist press made the Mandela's out to be saints. While I do give Nelson a lot of credit for making a positive change in his heart and a strong effort to forge a better future for everyone in SA to live peacefully, I am not oblivious to his, his wifes or the ANC's past.

BTW - Most of the necklacing was perpetrated against fellow blacks, so if nothing else that should set off your alarm bells.
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