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Old 06-14-2019, 12:22 PM
 
9,277 posts, read 4,270,448 times
Reputation: 11025

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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post

And yes i did address your point about us joining others in pressuring SA. I said that we were one of many nations that did so. Iím not buying your assertion that our pressure was the prime mover in forcing them to abandon Apartheid.
But even if it was, so what? The only other alternative was to advocate apartheid, and you already said that we shouldnít have done that. Lest you say that we shouldíve remained neutral....which is the same as an endorsement.
I will get to the other stuff in your post later, but wanted to concentrate on this part, especially the bolded part.

First I do not accept the premise that if "we remained neutral" to use your words, we would be endorsing it.

However lets say you are correct.
You now want us to remain neutral and not get involved. So is it your feeling that by remaining neutral now, you are endorsing what the black run government is doing to the white farmers


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Old 06-14-2019, 05:52 PM
 
9,277 posts, read 4,270,448 times
Reputation: 11025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pgh guy View Post
It's a joke and I have no desire to either. You don't know me well enough to make any statements about me.
^

Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I know enough about your posting history to understand that you have a disdain for Blacks. Why not just post how you really feel instead of beating around the bush. You won't be liked much, but you'll be respected more.
You may or may not be correct about the poster you replied to, but do you also issue such challenges to those who are black and likely racists on this forum?


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Old 06-14-2019, 11:37 PM
 
50,479 posts, read 26,667,876 times
Reputation: 15759
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
What are talking about with invading a nation
If you are implying us sending troops, I have never called for that, just the opposite. But that does not mean we just ignore what is going on either.

The point about Winnie was to show how the leftist press made the Mandela's out to be saints. While I do give Nelson a lot of credit for making a positive change in his heart and a strong effort to forge a better future for everyone in SA to live peacefully, I am not oblivious to his, his wifes or the ANC's past.

BTW - Most of the necklacing was perpetrated against fellow blacks, so if nothing else that should set off your alarm bells.
Nope. I donít care about who got necklaced. None of my concern.

BTW, I donít really care about what you think of the Mandelas. Itís unimportant and irrelevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
I will get to the other stuff in your post later, but wanted to concentrate on this part, especially the bolded part.

First I do not accept the premise that if "we remained neutral" to use your words, we would be endorsing it.

However lets say you are correct.
You now want us to remain neutral and not get involved. So is it your feeling that by remaining neutral now, you are endorsing what the black run government is doing to the white farmers


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I already conceded the fact that the United States helped apply pressure. I just donít care that we did. Letís say that helping to apply pressure was wrong, and now it puts whites in a bad spot. Letís say that we owe the white minority for screwing them.

Okay. Tell them to get in line. Thatís my point. Several other victims of U.S. screwing come first, and I see no reason why SA should jump to the front of the line.
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Old 06-14-2019, 11:57 PM
 
4,425 posts, read 869,355 times
Reputation: 1886
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
Problem is who can we believe? Your left wing sources that hide or whitewash everything? I apologize if youíre not left wing but seriously who can anyone believe anymore?
Great question! We are often told who NOT to believe that who we CAN believe almost seems like a myth.
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Old 06-15-2019, 02:41 PM
 
9,277 posts, read 4,270,448 times
Reputation: 11025
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Nope. I donít care about who got necklaced. None of my concern.

BTW, I donít really care about what you think of the Mandelas. Itís unimportant and irrelevant.


I already conceded the fact that the United States helped apply pressure. I just donít care that we did. Letís say that helping to apply pressure was wrong, and now it puts whites in a bad spot. Letís say that we owe the white minority for screwing them.

Okay. Tell them to get in line. Thatís my point. Several other victims of U.S. screwing come first, and I see no reason why SA should jump to the front of the line.


The Mandela's were a key component of what happened in SA.
Granted Nelson was no Mahatma, nor Winnie a Mrs Ghandi, but I doubt most of the world would have applied the same pressure without the belief SA could do a peaceful transition.


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Old 06-15-2019, 02:53 PM
 
9,277 posts, read 4,270,448 times
Reputation: 11025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eumaois View Post
Great question! We are often told who NOT to believe that who we CAN believe almost seems like a myth.
Well when multiple sources are reporting that between an estimated 3,000 to 4,000 have been killed in the last 8 years, I think it is fair to say far too many are being killed based on nothing more than their race.

So unless some people think these known people like not really being killed (even when reported on by left leaning sources), what is not to be believed.
Here is the latest one, assuming you believe a hardcore white supremacist source like the NYT's;

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/03/w...er-killed.html



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Old 06-15-2019, 11:18 PM
 
9,277 posts, read 4,270,448 times
Reputation: 11025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
Judging by their character not their color, they are not a rabbit.

Death By Tire Fire: A Brief History Of ďNecklacingĒ In Apartheid South Africa
Funny how one of our resident race merchants doesn't care about actual "necklacing", yet they can get all worked up over anti-black graffiti or a noose left hanging on a tree (without anyone in it of course).

Sadly I was reading a forum thread where a few felt as if anything that happened to whites in SA was deserved, due to them "having stolen the land".
Their sheer ignorance on the history of SA is astounding.


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Old 06-16-2019, 07:01 AM
 
50,479 posts, read 26,667,876 times
Reputation: 15759
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post


The Mandela's were a key component of what happened in SA.
Granted Nelson was no Mahatma, nor Winnie a Mrs Ghandi, but I doubt most of the world would have applied the same pressure without the belief SA could do a peaceful transition.


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No Mahatma Ghandi or Mrs Ghandi?

Who are they that the Mandelas should have strived to be anything like them?

Ghandi was a fakir. Bleh. And if the account is to be believed, his wife thought that she was above the Indian ďUntouchablesĒ in their caste system. Ghandi himself had some good ideas on how to rid India of its British minority that I GREATLY admire (as I relish all stories of European colonists getting kicked around), but I have no admiration for Ghandi beyond that. And I have zero respect for his wife.

So whatever. Besides, there WAS a peaceful transition. A non-peaceful transition is what wouldíve happened if Apartheid hadnít been lifted.
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Old 06-16-2019, 07:05 AM
 
50,479 posts, read 26,667,876 times
Reputation: 15759
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
Funny how one of our resident race merchants doesn't care about actual "necklacing", yet they can get all worked up over anti-black graffiti or a noose left hanging on a tree (without anyone in it of course).

Sadly I was reading a forum thread where a few felt as if anything that happened to whites in SA was deserved, due to them "having stolen the land".
Their sheer ignorance on the history of SA is astounding.


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Don’t be a weak subliminal accuser. Say names because I’ll damn sure say yours if I think you’re outta line.

Show proof of me saying a word about graffiti or nooses. Go ahead. It doesn’t exist.
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Old 06-16-2019, 04:10 PM
 
9,277 posts, read 4,270,448 times
Reputation: 11025
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
No Mahatma Ghandi or Mrs Ghandi?

Who are they that the Mandelas should have strived to be anything like them?

Ghandi was a fakir. Bleh. And if the account is to be believed, his wife thought that she was above the Indian ďUntouchablesĒ in their caste system. Ghandi himself had some good ideas on how to rid India of its British minority that I GREATLY admire (as I relish all stories of European colonists getting kicked around), but I have no admiration for Ghandi beyond that. And I have zero respect for his wife.

So whatever. Besides, there WAS a peaceful transition. A non-peaceful transition is what wouldíve happened if Apartheid hadnít been lifted.
Gandhi preached peace from beginning to end, and almost died during a hunger strike to stop the violence between Hindus & Muslims.
While his wife might have felt superior to the "untouchables", she was not going around advocating violence like Winnie did.
So while I use the example of Nelson seeing the light, he was not as worthy of praise as Gandhi because of the aforementioned, and Winnie was not even in the same ballpark as Mrs Gandhi.

As to a peaceful transition in SA, yes on that we can agree. But I seriously doubt the Afrikaner government would have agreed to relinquish power if they knew what would happen just a decade later, especially what is happening now.

Lastly, the part of your post I bolded comes as little surprise to many who are familiar with your beliefs on this forum.
I suppose you'd like to see our country pay for it's colonial past as well, even today, right?


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