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Old 06-16-2019, 04:25 PM
 
9,277 posts, read 4,270,448 times
Reputation: 11025

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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Donít be a weak subliminal accuser. Say names because Iíll damn sure say yours if I think youíre outta line.

Show proof of me saying a word about graffiti or nooses. Go ahead. It doesnít exist.


I am referring to any of the posters here or elsewhere that carry deep seeded animosity toward whites in our country, with a racial chip on their shoulder the size of a VW.
I have no problem discussing past injustices whether they be in our country or abroad. However the sad truth is our country was progressing toward a more positive future without the racial and ethnic strife that plagues so many other countries/cultural.
Then along came a rabble rouser (excuse me, "community organizer") out of the Alinsky mold, who became the first "post racial potus".

Obama did more to stir the you know what, and the results are we are much worse off racially now than at any point in my lifetime.
As much as it pains me to say it, I think we would have been better off having elected Hillary in 2008 from a race relations standpoint.
Then when we did have our first black president, he would be a (R) like Carson, West, etc., that could keep us going in the right direction, not stir up so much racial animus.
But I digress.

SA is on the verge of a potential civil war and/or a massacre based on racial hatred. I'd like for the same countries that brought so much pressure to bear on the Afrikaner government to do the same against the current regime.
By all means, let them solve most of their problems without getting our boys in harms way. But make it clear that stealing land and killing the owners just because of their race will not be without consequences.

BTW - As you might imagine, it will not only be whites who are maimed/killed, so I would think everyone should want to see such a thing avoided.


`


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Old 06-16-2019, 05:52 PM
 
50,479 posts, read 26,667,876 times
Reputation: 15759
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
Gandhi preached peace from beginning to end, and almost died during a hunger strike to stop the violence between Hindus & Muslims.
While his wife might have felt superior to the "untouchables", she was not going around advocating violence like Winnie did.
So while I use the example of Nelson seeing the light, he was not as worthy of praise as Gandhi because of the aforementioned, and Winnie was not even in the same ballpark as Mrs Gandhi.

As to a peaceful transition in SA, yes on that we can agree. But I seriously doubt the Afrikaner government would have agreed to relinquish power if they knew what would happen just a decade later, especially what is happening now.

Lastly, the part of your post I bolded comes as little surprise to many who are familiar with your beliefs on this forum.
I suppose you'd like to see our country pay for it's colonial past as well, even today, right?


`
I hate colonialism and colonialists. With a red hot passion.

Do I want us to pay for our colonialism? Like what or when?

As for the Ghandis, I don’t care about a fakir and his wife. They did what they had to do for India...a place that lies on a continent that I have no ties to. Hell, Indians don’t even like black people although they tend to look up to whites. Maybe that’s what you’re so quick to throw Ghandi’s name around as if I’m supposed to genuflect at the mere mention. Lol!!

So to me, the aren’t anyone the Mandelas should’ve looked up to.
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Old 06-16-2019, 06:06 PM
 
50,479 posts, read 26,667,876 times
Reputation: 15759
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post


I am referring to any of the posters here or elsewhere that carry deep seeded animosity toward whites in our country, with a racial chip on their shoulder the size of a VW.
I have no problem discussing past injustices whether they be in our country or abroad. However the sad truth is our country was progressing toward a more positive future without the racial and ethnic strife that plagues so many other countries/cultural.
Then along came a rabble rouser (excuse me, "community organizer") out of the Alinsky mold, who became the first "post racial potus".

Obama did more to stir the you know what, and the results are we are much worse off racially now than at any point in my lifetime.
As much as it pains me to say it, I think we would have been better off having elected Hillary in 2008 from a race relations standpoint.
Then when we did have our first black president, he would be a (R) like Carson, West, etc., that could keep us going in the right direction, not stir up so much racial animus.
But I digress.

SA is on the verge of a potential civil war and/or a massacre based on racial hatred. I'd like for the same countries that brought so much pressure to bear on the Afrikaner government to do the same against the current regime.
By all means, let them solve most of their problems without getting our boys in harms way. But make it clear that stealing land and killing the owners just because of their race will not be without consequences.

BTW - As you might imagine, it will not only be whites who are maimed/killed, so I would think everyone should want to see such a thing avoided.

`
Now you’re just spewing purposeless invective.

Obama only angered those who already had serious issues with racial animus. He never made a single white or black person MORE racist.

Face it, you were already raging in 2008. Obama was only a reminder that your grandfather’s America was gone, and that left you more embittered than ever. Don’t lie about it...keep it real. I can feel it thru your words.

Look, just chill out and think good thoughts. I realize that you don’t like us, but there’s nothing you can do about it. Smile at us when you see us. Or don’t. But you’ve gotta keep your anger to yourself regardless. It’s out of your hands.

BTW...you were NOT talking about any other posters. You were talking about me. When you couldn’t find me saying anything about graffiti or nooses, then your story changed. Like I said, keep it real. No fake ****.

Last edited by desertdetroiter; 06-16-2019 at 06:19 PM..
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:04 AM
 
9,277 posts, read 4,270,448 times
Reputation: 11025
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
I hate colonialism and colonialists. With a red hot passion.

Do I want us to pay for our colonialism? Like what or when?

As for the Ghandis, I don’t care about a fakir and his wife. They did what they had to do for India...a place that lies on a continent that I have no ties to. Hell, Indians don’t even like black people although they tend to look up to whites. Maybe that’s what you’re so quick to throw Ghandi’s name around as if I’m supposed to genuflect at the mere mention. Lol!!

So to me, the aren’t anyone the Mandelas should’ve looked up to.
This is a microcosm of your inability to have a discussion without it involving race. Sure this particular subject will naturally involve race, but not every example or comparative example will.
I use many examples of people who may have hate in their heart, either been violent or at least condoned it, then had a change of heart. (Arafat, McGuinness, Adams, Paisley, Mandela, etc.)
Some were better men or women than others, but if they made such a change, I am wiling to give them credit for it.

So here I am giving credit to a genuine man of peace (from beginning to end ) and you slip race into it.
Worse yet I am giving credit to a man of color, but you make an assumption, then speculate about my motivation.
That is an interesting sentence, but if you reread it, you might see what I am saying.
Like I said, you remind me of Pitts Jr. who cannot write about any subject without bring race into it. He is consumed by race, seemingly like you are.

So you don't care about a "fakir", referring to Gandhi? That is unless he is battling colonialism or colonists, then you admire him. Otherwise you don't care.
Interesting.
I guess you are of the mind of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" type of thinking?
Thus he was good and to be admired for his opposition to British rule, but not as a special person in the way he did it peacefully.

One of the ironies with SA is that I gave credit to Nelson and Desmond for their efforts, both of them black of course. That seems to fly over your head, or you diminish it by saying you don't care what my opinion of the Mandela's are.
For starters it is relevant because without Mandela (both the bad & good version of him), SA might well have had a very different future.
Second, if he was genuine in his publicly pronounced future for SA, he would not approve of what is happening today.
Do you at least agree with that before we go any further?






`
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Old 06-19-2019, 04:42 AM
 
776 posts, read 136,505 times
Reputation: 196
Looks like DD gave up.
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Old 06-19-2019, 05:22 PM
 
9,277 posts, read 4,270,448 times
Reputation: 11025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pgh guy View Post
Looks like DD gave up.
He rarely does, so maybe he was on capitol hill today.


`
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Old 06-20-2019, 12:58 PM
 
776 posts, read 136,505 times
Reputation: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
He rarely does, so maybe he was on capitol hill today.


`
Maybe he went to the Trump rally and hasn't returned yet. lol
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Old 06-20-2019, 08:11 PM
 
50,479 posts, read 26,667,876 times
Reputation: 15759
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
This is a microcosm of your inability to have a discussion without it involving race. Sure this particular subject will naturally involve race, but not every example or comparative example will.
I use many examples of people who may have hate in their heart, either been violent or at least condoned it, then had a change of heart. (Arafat, McGuinness, Adams, Paisley, Mandela, etc.)
Some were better men or women than others, but if they made such a change, I am wiling to give them credit for it.

So here I am giving credit to a genuine man of peace (from beginning to end ) and you slip race into it.
Worse yet I am giving credit to a man of color, but you make an assumption, then speculate about my motivation.
That is an interesting sentence, but if you reread it, you might see what I am saying.
Like I said, you remind me of Pitts Jr. who cannot write about any subject without bring race into it. He is consumed by race, seemingly like you are.

So you don't care about a "fakir", referring to Gandhi? That is unless he is battling colonialism or colonists, then you admire him. Otherwise you don't care.
Interesting.
I guess you are of the mind of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" type of thinking?
Thus he was good and to be admired for his opposition to British rule, but not as a special person in the way he did it peacefully.

One of the ironies with SA is that I gave credit to Nelson and Desmond for their efforts, both of them black of course. That seems to fly over your head, or you diminish it by saying you don't care what my opinion of the Mandela's are.
For starters it is relevant because without Mandela (both the bad & good version of him), SA might well have had a very different future.
Second, if he was genuine in his publicly pronounced future for SA, he would not approve of what is happening today.
Do you at least agree with that before we go any further?
`
I don’t know of any bad version of Mandela. And yes, without him, South Africa would be very different.

Would he approve of what’s happening today? You mean the supposed disenfranchisement of whites (that I don’t fully believe)? No. He didn’t believe in marginalizing anyone to my knowledge.

Mentioning Tutu is telling, along with your Ghandi mentions. Seems like you only approve of folks standing up to whites ONLY if they’re non threatening in tone, demeanor, and putative intentions. But if they bark in any way, you’re personally revolted. I think like many whites, you reserve the right to buck-up for whites only. Everyone else must offer some sort of obsequious style of resistance.

This goes right to the heart of what my father taught me. Your attitude is a strong reminder.
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Old 06-26-2019, 02:58 PM
 
776 posts, read 136,505 times
Reputation: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
I donít know of any bad version of Mandela. And yes, without him, South Africa would be very different.

Would he approve of whatís happening today? You mean the supposed disenfranchisement of whites (that I donít fully believe)? No. He didnít believe in marginalizing anyone to my knowledge.

Mentioning Tutu is telling, along with your Ghandi mentions. Seems like you only approve of folks standing up to whites ONLY if theyíre non threatening in tone, demeanor, and putative intentions. But if they bark in any way, youíre personally revolted. I think like many whites, you reserve the right to buck-up for whites only. Everyone else must offer some sort of obsequious style of resistance.

This goes right to the heart of what my father taught me. Your attitude is a strong reminder.
If it hadn't been for White America protesting apartheid years ago, it would be the same ole same in SA.
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Old 06-27-2019, 07:38 PM
 
9,277 posts, read 4,270,448 times
Reputation: 11025
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
I donít know of any bad version of Mandela. And yes, without him, South Africa would be very different.

Would he approve of whatís happening today? You mean the supposed disenfranchisement of whites (that I donít fully believe)? No. He didnít believe in marginalizing anyone to my knowledge.

Mentioning Tutu is telling, along with your Ghandi mentions. Seems like you only approve of folks standing up to whites ONLY if theyíre non threatening in tone, demeanor, and putative intentions. But if they bark in any way, youíre personally revolted. I think like many whites, you reserve the right to buck-up for whites only. Everyone else must offer some sort of obsequious style of resistance.

This goes right to the heart of what my father taught me. Your attitude is a strong reminder.
You are an interesting piece of work, and now I have a greater insight as to why.

Our Dads, for better or for worse can instill things into us we will be programmed with (or at least be predisposed to) for our entire lives. When people are jaded, bigoted, racist etc., or conversely optimistic, brotherly, or fight against hatred, it comes from somewhere.
Some is nature, some nature, thus a combination of experiences we all share. Thus you have inferred and at times projected things about me which do not fit the bill. Since I know myself fairly well, and certainly my own posting style, it has not made sense to me how you can assume or mischaracterize me as often as you have.
But if your Dad and by your own nature, project assumptions toward white people, it is starting to make more sense.

That said, rest assured Mandela did have a bad version, especially compared with how he turned out. One can fight oppression with violence, or they can find a diplomatic, political and/or peaceful means of achieving their goals. Mandela chose violence, then turned peaceful.
[Now before you assume something incorrect let me assure you I do not blindly accept when a society/government in power claims a person is a terrorist, that they are automatically deserving of such a label]
Targeting military installations or extensions of government power are examples of how one might need to fight against oppression.
Let us never forget as Americans that the British labeled our Founding Fathers terrorists. That was in part because we were not willing to fight in a manner that would have allowed them to slaughter us before we had a chance to win.
So yes, to some people, a terrorist can be another freedom fighter, especially if the label of terrorist is unjustly applied to certain "enemies of the state".

However the intentional taking of innocent lives can be terrorism, whether it be by an individual or agents of a government.
Mandela became the military leader of the ANC when they went underground and became violent. Innocent people were killed by the ANC, thus any reasoned person could say this was the bad version of Mandela.

Yet he eventually found the right path within his heart and traded the bullet for the ballot. So even Mandela's critics have to grudgingly admire such a change. Most human beings are capable of redemption.

As to you having to qualify/question whether whites are being "disenfranchised" is very telling. For starters your terminology seems callous, since disenfranchisement is the least of what is occurring, unless you consider murder a lesser crime.
But as to them being driven off their family owned farms, how else could you classify it?

You comment about bucking up for whites only is absurd on several fronts. When I mention people of color striving for justice in a peaceful way, that is the path we should all strive for, regardless of our race, even if the injustice is being perpetrated by another race.

Sadly you far too often see things in terms of race, rather than method.
So when I mentioned those like Gandhi or Tutu, they were both men of peace and of God. They talked the talked and walked the walk of peace without falter.
I have also mentioned other peacemakers like Gerry Adams and MLK, both of different races, and both fighting against injustice perpetrated by whites.
So your assumptions or trying to fit me into some box your Dad assumed to be true of white people, frankly is misguided.

`
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