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Old 07-09-2019, 10:18 AM
 
9,361 posts, read 4,297,485 times
Reputation: 11049

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Quote:
Originally Posted by phinneas j. whoopee View Post
You didnt actually address anything I said, and even deny intent in the face of mandelas celebration. The ANC states the song is part of their heritage. Kill the white people? Pay no attention its all in good fun right?

Just because blacks kill alot of blacks in SA does not preclude the reality of whites being killed to take their land and drive the remaining ones out of the country out of fear.
I know you are addressing a different poster, but some in this thread turn a blind eye to what is occuring. We are not talking about dubious and/or hard right news sources. When documentaries are made by moderates/liberals, and liberal sources like the NYT's are reporting it, how can one pretend this is not happening.

As strange as it sounds to say, the ANC is more moderate compared with a few of the other groups in SA calling for the death of whites who do not leave.

Mandela for his faults did have a change of heart. While never a dove, he certainly turned himself around, and I think he would be upset with the current racist events unfolding in SA.


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Old 07-09-2019, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Middle of the Pacific Ocean
11,744 posts, read 6,316,089 times
Reputation: 11571
Quote:
Originally Posted by phinneas j. whoopee View Post
You didnt actually address anything I said, and even deny intent in the face of mandelas celebration. The ANC states the song is part of their heritage. Kill the white people? Pay no attention its all in good fun right?

Just because blacks kill alot of blacks in SA does not preclude the reality of whites being killed to take their land and drive the remaining ones out of the country out of fear.
This thread is about genocide of whites in South Africa, of which there has been much hysteria but few facts to support. I don't condone any songs of violence, threats of violence, or acts of violence against innocents, especially based on ridiculous and illusory characteristics such as race. But that is not evidence of genocide. Again, the numbers and intent don't support it.
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Old 07-09-2019, 01:09 PM
 
1,323 posts, read 327,142 times
Reputation: 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Why should I care what a “majority of blacks” believe? A majority of blacks are Democrats too. You sure as hell don’t find that to be sensible, do you? But I should be a Christian because a majority of blacks believe in Jesus? That’s odd. So I should “think for myself” (as you white conservatives like to taunt) when it comes to politics, but religion? Oh no...don’t think for yourself on that one. Follow the crowd. Because we white folks indoctrinated that one into your people to keep you docile so of course it’s good for you! Sorry, I don’t accept a non Sub Saharan African as my savior. How do I look worshipping a Jewish savior with blonde hair and blue eyes? You white folks sure as hell don’t worship a black deity. And taking the religion of the people that enslaved and tormented you is the height of absurdity. Whites don’t do that, do they?

And this is exactly the stuff I was talking about when my father told to to watch our for your deceptive trickery. LMAO...I’m too good to fall for it though.

As I said before, I have empathy for anyone suffering injustice regardless of race. And blacks imposing injustice on whites infuriates me just as much as any other form of injustice.

My problem is in the case of SA, I don’t know how much I believe regarding this situation. Secondly, people’s all over the world have been DIRECTLY wronged by the United States, and we’ve yet to atone for those actions. So why should SA be at the head of the line? We have nations right in this hemisphere that we’ve committed horrible atrocities against. I see no reason why SA should be prioritized ahead of Guatemala or Nicaragua.
Wow that really is a twisted mindset. If a white person spoke like that concerning any negative attitudes or traits of blacks that wouldnt fly at all.
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Old 07-09-2019, 01:12 PM
 
1,323 posts, read 327,142 times
Reputation: 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
This thread is about genocide of whites in South Africa, of which there has been much hysteria but few facts to support. I don't condone any songs of violence, threats of violence, or acts of violence against innocents, especially based on ridiculous and illusory characteristics such as race. But that is not evidence of genocide. Again, the numbers and intent don't support it.
Intent?

If these were simple robberies why are the victims brutally tortured to death?
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Old 07-09-2019, 01:33 PM
 
9,361 posts, read 4,297,485 times
Reputation: 11049
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
This thread is about genocide of whites in South Africa, of which there has been much hysteria but few facts to support. I don't condone any songs of violence, threats of violence, or acts of violence against innocents, especially based on ridiculous and illusory characteristics such as race. But that is not evidence of genocide. Again, the numbers and intent don't support it.
Many a thread might have a provocative or attention grabbing title, and while I do believe that what is occurring in SA is a potential race war with many people being physically harmed, it has not risen to "genocide" at this stage.
That said, the whole idea to it prevent a potential genocide, right?
In part by illuminating the existing autocracies, and not dismissing them just because it could be worse.

Genocide was not occurring with the white Afrikaner government was using the system of apartheid, yet that didn't keep us and other western countries from putting diplomatic and economic pressure on them to stop.


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Old 07-09-2019, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,624 posts, read 16,448,083 times
Reputation: 6348
The situation in South Africa is untenable. The issue is the majority of the population is in poverty and they won;t be able to pull themselves out of it. They will grow increasingly envious of the wealthier minority, whites and others and demand the same.

It's human nature.
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Old 07-09-2019, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Federal Way, WA
670 posts, read 199,131 times
Reputation: 665
Ok, for those who continue raise this issue as a huge concern, what exactly do you propose? Should America intervene militarily? Eliminate foreign aid? I'm not opposed to revisiting all of our foreign aid handouts to foreign nations and cutting some of them down or off completely. I don't think that would make a difference in the violence though.

If we intervene militarily, is it to try and get ALL of the murders under control, including the vast majority which are black people being murdered? Or do we focus on the white farmers being murdered only?

If it American military intervention that you want, please explain how that is going to work out and what a "win" would look like.
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Old 07-09-2019, 09:59 PM
 
9,361 posts, read 4,297,485 times
Reputation: 11049
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFit View Post
Ok, for those who continue raise this issue as a huge concern, what exactly do you propose? Should America intervene militarily? Eliminate foreign aid? I'm not opposed to revisiting all of our foreign aid handouts to foreign nations and cutting some of them down or off completely. I don't think that would make a difference in the violence though.

If we intervene militarily, is it to try and get ALL of the murders under control, including the vast majority which are black people being murdered? Or do we focus on the white farmers being murdered only?

If it American military intervention that you want, please explain how that is going to work out and what a "win" would look like.
How about you read a few responses in this thread, rather than posing a question/s on page 20 asking people to restate what has been said many times before?

Since my answer is relatively simple, I will reiterate my view, that being America should use the same diplomatic and economic sanctions we did to force the white government to stop their policies during the apartheid era.
The global media should also be shaming the current government the same way they did before, along with Hollywood celebrities and sports stars did.
That worked successfully without the need for us to use military force.



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Old 07-09-2019, 11:32 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,774 posts, read 4,449,045 times
Reputation: 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
I'd say The African record on The African continent is embarrassing ...

'It Was As if We Weren’t Human.' Inside the Modern Slave Trade Trapping African Migrants

Africa is again the world’s epicenter of modern-day slavery

paywall hit but the title tells all that needs to be said and it is true, slavery out of Africa, as well as other countries ... did not stop because it was deemed illegal --- they continue to capture; kidnap and sell people in the black markets and yes, many are in the u.s. today.

I'm not saying anything people do not already know and understand. There was a photo in one article I was reading on the current situation of a march of protest on the farm murders. (I wish I could back track and find) Within that picture, depicting those representative of those murders were several black citizens wearing T-shirts, that said, stop the farm murders ...

Not all of the farmers are White and I do not believe those acting with malicious intent are prejudice in who they torture and kill. And I am theorizing that, because the situation did not and would not garner international recognition, they came up with the idea that maybe exposing the killing of White farmers may get more attention; thereby putting more pressure on the local authorities to act, rather than cover up.

FACTSHEET: Statistics on farm attacks and murders in South Africa

Who are the victims of farm attacks?

"South Africa’s official crime statistics revealed that 46 of the 62 people murdered on farms and smallholdings in 2017/18 were white.

In 2001, the police’s Crime Information Analysis Centre revealed that of the 1,398 people attacked on farms, 61.6% were white, 33.3% were black, 4.4% were Asian and 0.7% were listed as “other”. This data is now more than 15 years old and should not be assumed to be representative of the current situation. "


If the countries leaders on the African continent would get their chit together, they wouldn't need any one's help in making those countries a thriving, productive and competitive powerhouse on the global market scale and in doing so level up the average lifestyle of their people. Their hearts need to change though, before that will ever happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phinneas j. whoopee View Post
They say people on farms who have been murdered. The blacks who were killed werent owners they were usually employees who tried to stop the crimes. Blacks in SA who ally with whites are treated more brutally than whites themselves..That was the story behind necklacing.
I've know the history of necklacing long time as I saw the documentary on it, about 20 - 30 years ago. That is how I knew to look it up, as I saw it relevant to the thread, in things that happen in SA that might make a person go hmmmm, and that it could also be relevant on the farm murder issue.
Quote:
They say people on farms who have been murdered.
Yes, 72% of the farmland is owned by the whites, whose ancestors settled there long before we were even thought to be born. 28% of the farmland is owned by blacks. It is more dangerous to be a farmer [Boer] in SA, that it is to be a police officer as the farmer stands the greater chance of being killed, along with his family.
Quote:
The blacks who were killed werent owners they were usually employees who tried to stop the crimes.
You don't know that. This is not a debate that is going to be won by a yours is bigger than mine, in looking at statistical data in a white vs black environment.

Fact --- Farm owners in SA are being brutally terrorized and murdered.
Fact --- The authorities ceased keeping accurate records on the murders in 2008.
Fact --- Farmers are being murdered in SA. Legal stats on how many is unknown.

Also did you know:
Orania, Northern Cape

An all white township located is SA. "The town's relations with the South African government are non-confrontational, and although opposed to the aspirations of the community, it has recognised them as legitimate."

Just a bit of trivia.

As in all things, the issues in SA are more complicated than that of black and white and imo, when the issues get to be political is what makes them, complicated.
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Old 07-10-2019, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Federal Way, WA
670 posts, read 199,131 times
Reputation: 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
How about you read a few responses in this thread, rather than posing a question/s on page 20 asking people to restate what has been said many times before?

Since my answer is relatively simple, I will reiterate my view, that being America should use the same diplomatic and economic sanctions we did to force the white government to stop their policies during the apartheid era.
The global media should also be shaming the current government the same way they did before, along with Hollywood celebrities and sports stars did.
That worked successfully without the need for us to use military force.



`
And would all of this be to curtail all violence, or just the small percentage that is against whites?

Out of all the stats I've found, it seems there haven't been more than 200 farm murders in a single year, usually under 100. More people than that get murdered each week in South Africa in non-farm murders. It just seems weird to me how worried some people are about a small fraction of the murders there with little or no mention of the fact that the overall murder rate is astronomical, with the farm murders making up a very small amount of that.

Last edited by SFit; 07-10-2019 at 01:45 PM..
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