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Old 06-17-2019, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA (Sandy Springs)
5,164 posts, read 2,812,979 times
Reputation: 3902

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
Stay out of the ME, crisis averted.
Agreed, nearly every decision we have made in the ME has come back bite us.

1. Giving Iraq weapons to fight Iran
2. Arming the Taliban to resist Russia in Afghanistan
3. Giving Iran a nuclear reactor in 1967
4. Installing the Shah of Iran as a puppet of the CIA against the will of the people
5. Invading Iraq to remove the non-threat Saddam, opening the door for disaffected Sunnis to form ISIS
6. Declaring a red line in the Syria war then failing to enforce it, allowing Russia to take over the situation

These failures have been under both D and R presidents.

The US as a rule makes terrible decisions when it comes to the ME.
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Old 06-17-2019, 10:37 AM
 
7,097 posts, read 1,780,334 times
Reputation: 4208
Quote:
Originally Posted by atltechdude View Post
Agreed, nearly every decision we have made in the ME has come back bite us.

1. Giving Iraq weapons to fight Iran
2. Arming the Taliban to resist Russia in Afghanistan
3. Giving Iran a nuclear reactor in 1967
4. Installing the Shah of Iran as a puppet of the CIA against the will of the people
5. Invading Iraq to remove the non-threat Saddam, opening the door for disaffected Sunnis to form ISIS
6. Declaring a red line in the Syria war then failing to enforce it, allowing Russia to take over the situation

These failures have been under both D and R presidents.

The US as a rule makes terrible decisions when it comes to the ME.

As well as Southeast Asia and Latin America. I don't recall many good foreign policy decisions in those regions either post WW2 / Marshall Plan.
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Old 06-17-2019, 10:40 AM
Status: "Elect a clown? Expect a circus!" (set 27 days ago)
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
58,174 posts, read 40,966,092 times
Reputation: 29901
Quote:
Originally Posted by atltechdude View Post
Agreed, nearly every decision we have made in the ME has come back bite us.

1. Giving Iraq weapons to fight Iran
2. Arming the Taliban to resist Russia in Afghanistan
3. Giving Iran a nuclear reactor in 1967
4. Installing the Shah of Iran as a puppet of the CIA against the will of the people
5. Invading Iraq to remove the non-threat Saddam, opening the door for disaffected Sunnis to form ISIS
6. Declaring a red line in the Syria war then failing to enforce it, allowing Russia to take over the situation

These failures have been under both D and R presidents.

The US as a rule makes terrible decisions when it comes to the ME.


I'd add trusting the Saudis to that list.
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Old 06-17-2019, 11:01 AM
 
51,902 posts, read 41,774,553 times
Reputation: 32373
Quote:
Originally Posted by atltechdude View Post
Agreed, nearly every decision we have made in the ME has come back bite us.

1. Giving Iraq weapons to fight Iran
2. Arming the Taliban to resist Russia in Afghanistan
3. Giving Iran a nuclear reactor in 1967
4. Installing the Shah of Iran as a puppet of the CIA against the will of the people
5. Invading Iraq to remove the non-threat Saddam, opening the door for disaffected Sunnis to form ISIS
6. Declaring a red line in the Syria war then failing to enforce it, allowing Russia to take over the situation

These failures have been under both D and R presidents.

The US as a rule makes terrible decisions when it comes to the ME.
First off, good post.

I too prefer we stay out of other countries business.

However, due to the USSR and their intents in the region we have gotten ourselves involved through a variety of backroom deals and secret treaties (Sauds). In exchange, we've gotten pretty stable and cheap gas prices for 40 years or so.....but we are entangled as a result.

Region machinations between Iran and Saudia Arabia via proxies and puppets, something we all agree we'd like to stay out of are unlikely to be reality given that past and those deals.
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Old 06-18-2019, 07:47 AM
 
17,256 posts, read 10,183,539 times
Reputation: 28775
More nonsense

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/18/73355...to-middle-east
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Old 06-18-2019, 07:49 AM
 
23,076 posts, read 12,285,205 times
Reputation: 7304
While the original Iran deal may not have been 'ideal' -- rather than ripping it up and bullying them - -perhaps diplomacy and amending the deal to improve it would have been a better way to approach things.

I'm sure we will end up 'talking' once again and folks will think it is because of the threat of troops -- but I think the troops escalate things as does Trump's rhetoric.
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:07 AM
 
51,902 posts, read 41,774,553 times
Reputation: 32373
Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
While the original Iran deal may not have been 'ideal' -- rather than ripping it up and bullying them - -perhaps diplomacy and amending the deal to improve it would have been a better way to approach things.

I'm sure we will end up 'talking' once again and folks will think it is because of the threat of troops -- but I think the troops escalate things as does Trump's rhetoric.
It's ok to not always fall along party lines. Really.

Read up the past 40 years of rhetoric between us and Iran etc. and then tell us with a straight face how Trumps rhetoric escalated things.
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:29 AM
 
78,853 posts, read 33,532,796 times
Reputation: 15794
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
It's ok to not always fall along party lines. Really.

Read up the past 40 years of rhetoric between us and Iran etc. and then tell us with a straight face how Trumps rhetoric escalated things.
It's true we have had a poor relation with Iran but Trump is doing nothing to make that better. To argue that Trump is doing nothing but the same failed policies we have been practicing for decades, is not IMO a very good argument.
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:35 AM
 
51,902 posts, read 41,774,553 times
Reputation: 32373
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
It's true we have had a poor relation with Iran but Trump is doing nothing to make that better. To argue that Trump is doing nothing but the same failed policies we have been practicing for decades, is not IMO a very good argument.
I'm not saying it's a good thing, if that is what you mean by a good argument. I find it disingenuous to pretend that things got better beyond surface niceties over any of the past presidencies.

I've already stated my case that due to the cold war pressures and oil reliance that we've made long term ties with Iran's top enemy in the region. We know that makes good relations with Iran over the longrun highly unlikely.

I find Trumps blathering to be just that. Now if bombs start falling etc. then I will be very unhappy and that would be a clear escalation.
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:41 AM
 
78,853 posts, read 33,532,796 times
Reputation: 15794
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
I'm not saying it's a good thing, if that is what you mean by a good argument. I find it disingenuous to pretend that things got better beyond surface niceties over any of the past presidencies.

I've already stated my case that due to the cold war pressures and oil reliance that we've made long term ties with Iran's top enemy in the region. We know that makes good relations with Iran over the longrun highly unlikely.

I find Trumps blathering to be just that. Now if bombs start falling etc. then I will be very unhappy and that would be a clear escalation.
I supported very little of what Obama did but things were less of an issue under him. I give him little credit though as he made it worse in other areas.

Have the bombs started falling yet? No, but we need to stop the rhetoric also.
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