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Old 06-08-2019, 01:58 PM
 
Location: *
8,096 posts, read 2,416,063 times
Reputation: 2215

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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Adam Smith was advocating for a flat tax. Everyone pays the same tax rate. Naturally, those of greater abilities and therefore greater income pay more as a result of their higher income being subject to taxation. I, too, am all for a flat tax. The rich would pay WAY more for access to the exact same government services as the poor, who pay little to nothing but get the same access to services/benefits anyway.
What did Adam Smith say about loopholes & tax shelters?

Never mind, you'll just make up an answer. How anyone takes you & your sock puppets seriously is beyond me.
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Old 06-08-2019, 02:16 PM
 
66,501 posts, read 30,325,536 times
Reputation: 8671
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
What did Adam Smith say about loopholes & tax shelters?

Never mind, you'll just make up an answer. How anyone takes you & your sock puppets seriously is beyond me.
WHAT loopholes and tax shelters? The effective federal income tax paid by each income group is a matter of public record. The IRS publishes the data. If there are those supposed "loopholes and tax shelters," WHY is the top 1% paying an effective federal income tax rate (26.9%) that's 2.5 times higher than the effective tax rate (10.7%) the middle class (top 10%-25%, income: $80,921 to $139,713) pays? Wouldn't those supposed "loopholes and tax shelters" eliminate the difference?

Share of Income and Share of Federal Income Taxes Paid, by Income Group

Average Effective Federal Income Tax Rate, by Income Group

Again, the left-wing lacks the basic knowledge that's even published for public consumption by the IRS. Why embrace ignorance when the known facts are so readily available?
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Old 06-08-2019, 02:40 PM
 
3,222 posts, read 1,553,831 times
Reputation: 2352
Poor ALWAYS had the most Children in virtually every era. A huge portion are still White babies. I see plenty in my depressed old hometown. Kids still having kids on welfare then. May be less today or less abortions. But still very high.

Working middle-class families of two both WORK have the least. Working harder to support a lifestyle and putting off having children means less in the long run they will have.

A return of the Nuclear family where one income supports a family ..... is gone by far.

Europe has negative childbirth rates and its poorest still have the majority of children.

Corporate America rules and lower-classes wages just mean work trumps having a family as a necessity. That is if they do not want to live among these poorer families or send their children to their pubic schools.
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Old 06-08-2019, 02:45 PM
 
36,851 posts, read 16,368,917 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePa View Post
Poor ALWAYS had the most Children in virtually every era. A huge portion are still White babies. I see plenty in my depressed old hometown. Kids still having kids on welfare then. May be less today or less abortions. But still very high.

Working middle-class families of two both WORK have the least. Working harder to support a lifestyle and putting off having children means less in the long run they will have.

A return of the Nuclear family where one income supports a family ..... is gone by far.

Europe has negative childbirth rates and its poorest still have the majority of children.

Corporate America rules and lower-classes wages just mean work trumps having a family as a necessity. That is if they do not want to live among these poorer families or send their children to their pubic schools.
I don't know where you live but I live in So. Calif. and it's mostly poor blacks and Hispanics that are having baby after baby on the taxpayer dime.
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Old 06-08-2019, 02:49 PM
 
36,851 posts, read 16,368,917 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
That is not true. Much of the education tax is a mill rate. I own rental property and that cost is part of the rent I collect hence even the tenets on social assistance or low income ones pay for that flat rate. There are no provincial sales taxes and both federal and provincial taxes are set by your income. Health care is therefore paid according to ones income. The years I paid no taxes meant I paid nothing towards the cost of health care, the years I made good money I paid and now I am retired I am paying a little less. But the province pays for some of the education costs through income tax and grants cities funds to go towards policing and infrastructure.

So you are incorrect about everyone paying for those services, at least indirectly. I am sure that your poor or even the illegals pay rents and buy goods and services therefore they also pay towards roads and schools. And any income tax they pay goes towards the federal government coffers, just like you. But they cannot get refunds if they pay too much.

If there are sales taxes in your state then the poor and illegals pay into that or are they exempt?

Yes we have a different system than yours but also different from the UK, New Zealand, Germany and France.
Illegal aliens pay little to nothing in income taxes and when they do it's by using a fake or stolen SS number. They contribute $19 billion a year in taxes overall while costing us over $100 billion a year.
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Old 06-08-2019, 03:00 PM
 
36,851 posts, read 16,368,917 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
I
A lot of your illegal immigrants are those who overstay their visit. A "secured" border does not address that. And currently there are laws making illegal for a company to hire illegaos, but it is not enforced enough.

Do you think a person would make the trip from El Salvador, as an examole, if they didn't think they could earn a living in the States and a better life for their families?

Are those applying for refugee status also guilty of something? In Wikipedia, the origin of over one million illegals is Asia.
That stats are 40% visa over stayers vs 60% border jumpers. Who said that a secure border would address the visa over stayers? It's for the border jumpers. The visa over stayers will just have to be addressed in a different way.

How do you know that enforcement against the employers aren't being done enough? It has to be proven that an employer "knowingly" hired illegal aliens. Many times the illegal presents authentic looking fake or stolen documents to work and without e-verify it isn't always easy to tell. Trump reinstated the workplace raids that were discontinued under Obama and has had e-verify in his two budgets but probably tossed in the trash can by the Democrats just like in the past.

Who cares what their reasons are for coming here? They have no right to do so even if some greedy employer invites them. It's against the law! Americans want a better life for their families to but many illegals have stolen their once good paying construction, landscaping jobs in collusion with their greedy employers. Why are their families more an important than the rightful families of this country?

80% of illegals are from south of our border. You're comparing 1 million illegal aliens from Asia to the rest of them? I would say that those making bogus claims for asylum are guilty of fraud and only about 20% of them are legitimate claims.
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Old 06-09-2019, 06:46 AM
 
Location: *
8,096 posts, read 2,416,063 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
WHAT loopholes and tax shelters? The effective federal income tax paid by each income group is a matter of public record. The IRS publishes the data. If there are those supposed "loopholes and tax shelters," WHY is the top 1% paying an effective federal income tax rate (26.9%) that's 2.5 times higher than the effective tax rate (10.7%) the middle class (top 10%-25%, income: $80,921 to $139,713) pays? Wouldn't those supposed "loopholes and tax shelters" eliminate the difference?

Share of Income and Share of Federal Income Taxes Paid, by Income Group

Average Effective Federal Income Tax Rate, by Income Group

Again, the left-wing lacks the basic knowledge that's even published for public consumption by the IRS. Why embrace ignorance when the known facts are so readily available?
Are you actually claiming there are no loopholes or tax shelters in our present system? & the 'flat tax' would magically disappear them?

More of that same old, lame old libertarian nonsense:

Loopholes: Here To Stay Even Under A Flat Tax

https://www.forbes.com/sites/taxanal.../#31badeac415d
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Old 06-09-2019, 06:54 AM
 
66,501 posts, read 30,325,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Are you actually claiming there are no loopholes or tax shelters in our present system?
There are, known as refundable tax credits, but those apply only to the low-/middle-income earners. Those tax credits and other tax deductions are phased out at higher income levels. That's why there's such a hugely disproportionate tax burden placed on the top 1% compared to the middle class, for example.

Quote:
& the 'flat tax' would magically disappear them?
Again, nearly all the loopholes, tax deductions, and tax credits apply to the lower and middle ends of the income spectrum. If you want to eliminate their loopholes, deductions, and tax credits because you mistakenly believe the rich are able to use them... that's on you. /shrug
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Old 06-09-2019, 08:56 AM
 
Location: *
8,096 posts, read 2,416,063 times
Reputation: 2215
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
There are, known as refundable tax credits, but those apply only to the low-/middle-income earners. Those tax credits and other tax deductions are phased out at higher income levels. That's why there's such a hugely disproportionate tax burden placed on the top 1% compared to the middle class, for example.

Again, nearly all the loopholes, tax deductions, and tax credits apply to the lower and middle ends of the income spectrum. If you want to eliminate their loopholes, deductions, and tax credits because you mistakenly believe the rich are able to use them... that's on you. /shrug
How many "lower & middle ends" are using:
  • Tax Havens
  • Shell Companies
  • Equity Swaps
  • Avoiding Capital Gains Tax
  • Evading the Estate Tax
  • Shell Tax Funds
  • Incorporating
  • Payments In Kind
  • Life-Insurance Borrowing
  • Real Estate Borrowing

10 ACCOUNTING TRICKS THE 1% USE TO DODGE THE TAXMAN

https://www.accounting-degree.org/accounting-tricks/

More of the same old, lame old libertarian catechism.

How unusual.
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Old 06-09-2019, 09:00 AM
 
Location: USA
17,749 posts, read 8,871,248 times
Reputation: 13282
^^^^^Why shouldn't people and businesses LEGALLY use the U.S. Tax Code as written to reduce their tax burden? These are NOT a DODGE but legal means, specifically written by our law makers to incentivize business, and investment. Of course the rich use them because they create the most earnings.

Democrat/Progressive envy and jealous, yet most big corps are lead by Progressive Democrats who ALL use these tax "dodges both in their businesses AND personally. The 1% are mostly Progressive Democrats. Dem Politicians use these dodges. Dem Entertainers use the Dodges. That's OK, right?
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