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Old 06-10-2019, 05:42 PM
 
Location: San Jose
2,112 posts, read 642,434 times
Reputation: 2256

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Itís slavery when you force one group of people at gunpoint to pay for another groupís living expenses, healthcare, education and child rearing.
So having a court of law mandate that a dead beat dad help pay for his kids living expenses, healthcare, and education. By your definition, that dead beat dad is thus a slave?
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
4,348 posts, read 2,975,717 times
Reputation: 2030
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
I think most of us would agree that as a general rule, conservatives are comfortable with things as they are, whereas most of the issues favored by the progressive advocacy would require action by the legislative branch and/or the public sector in some form.

So I'd like to ask the guys and gals over on the other side of the divide what's most important to them, and how they would attain those goals.

And also, as with most of us here over on thee right side of the split, are there parts of the broad-spectrum conservative ideology you can live with?
#1. I want physician-assisted euthanasia legal in every state for mentally healthy adults, after a period of counseling. We can talk about how to treat mentally unhealthy persons later...because sometimes such people might not know what they really want, and that's sometimes difficult to tell.
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#2. I want Roe v. Wade to remain, and for conservatives to stop trying to remove it...or, I'd like abortion made more lenient for pregnant people...as in, forcing the states to allow it at later stages.
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#3. I want marijuana legalized nationally...and...I think...kratom. I'll have to learn more about kratom to be sure of that though.
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#4. I don't know what to do about global warming...but I want the right to acknowledge that humans are causing much of it, or if we're not, I want them to admit that nobody has any idea what else might be causing it besides humans. More than anything...I'd like their lackey propaganda artists to stop spewing false information all over the internet, but the politicians can't necessarily stop that.


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Those are my big four. What I get most passionate about is the removal of social controls that appear to, in addition to being controlling, cause more harm than good. I suspect banning prostitution causes those sorts of problems. I only didn't put it in my top four because it might be difficult to set up a system where it's regulated, and I see it being illegal as causing less pointless harm than physician-assisted euthanasia being illegal. Ideally, workers would be checked for STD's, and that would make things safer for customers. Workers being able to go to the police without hesitation would make things safer for workers.


I also can't think of a good reason for incest to be illegal, given that we don't ban people with inherited genetic problems from procreating, despite the chance of them sending them to their kids.


I also don't like the sorts of statutory rape laws where a person can go to jail for intercourse with another person one year younger. I think they should all be replaced by laws that give a leeway period so that the older party won't go to jail unless they'll almost certainly be old enough to be out of high school...but that isn't really a left or right thing.


I don't like laws that punish teens from sending nude images of themselves to each other, consensually. Some states have ways of legalizing that sort of thing. I want those sorts of legalizations to be everywhere.

There are also lots of other little laws that I doubt anyone still takes seriously that I'd prefer removed. One example is a law that mandates that women get their husband's permission to get their tubes tied. That's not really a left vs. right thing either though.

I'd also like stem cell research legalized...the controversial kind that deals with early embryo's, of five days or so, that would develop into full beings if allowed to.


I'm pretty sure I'd like the minimum wage increased too...but I don't know to what.

I'm interested in national healthcare...but I haven't learned much about that yet.
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As far as broad-spectrum conservative ideologies I could live with...much of what I want libertarians also want. Libertarians seems like they get along fairly well with most conservatives.

Last edited by Clintone; 06-10-2019 at 07:26 PM..
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:09 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
6,563 posts, read 3,662,092 times
Reputation: 12343
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
I think most of us would agree that as a general rule, conservatives are comfortable with things as they are, whereas most of the issues favored by the progressive advocacy would require action by the legislative branch and/or the public sector in some form.
I think that there is room for debate on what conservatives want and it is very likely that many (or most) are not comfortable with things as they are. If they ascribe to the notion of "culture wars" or fundamental religious politics, they are likely on a crusade to drag the country back into some make-believe world that never really existed.

Those "in left field" have a dozen or more competing issues and goals. There is no monolithic "left", no single Marxist or Socialist agenda, There are common threads of human and civil constitutional rights and how those rights are observed, protected, and preserved.
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:31 PM
 
18,834 posts, read 9,626,388 times
Reputation: 5286
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
So having a court of law mandate that a dead beat dad help pay for his kids living expenses, healthcare, and education. By your definition, that dead beat dad is thus a slave?
I canít follow your mental gymnastics.
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:32 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
19,838 posts, read 18,851,047 times
Reputation: 33746
It's a toss up but this person "on the left" wants fair and affordable health care for everyone. All Americans and a way for LEGAL immigrants to get affordable health care too.

No more illegal immigration at all. Set up temporary housing for the asylum seekers so they aren't turned loose to hide and never come back for their hearings.

Not taking away abortion rights.

Better rules concerning guns.

Somehow a restoration of decency and respect for others. We are not setting a good example for young people by name calling and ridicule, no matter who does it. That is not the America that I know.

No stupid things like free college--because not everyone goes to college and anyway, we can't afford that. I want things to be fair.
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:35 PM
 
718 posts, read 129,282 times
Reputation: 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
I think you just answered your own question with the above statement. You are saying that conservative ideology equals wanting no action (do nothing) and progressive ideology equals wanting action (do something). I agree with your conclusion.

However, it's also been my conclusion after more than 7 decades of observing Americans that the conservatives typically don't want to understand or have civil discourse with progressives, they just want to mock and insult them and keep on building up the barriers. Witness post # 6 above as a prime example of that. So with you being a conservative I must admit I'm puzzled, curious and just a little bit suspicious about what your motive is for asking what the progressives want the most.

If I was a progressive person and was living in America I wouldn't trust a question like that coming from any conservatives unless they had already thoroughly demonstrated that they were willing and REALLY wanting to bury the hatchet, and that it wasn't some kind of trick entrapment question.

But if conservatives eventually decide they sincerely do want civil discourse and to break down the barriers between them and the progressives then they might make a start at demonstrating their sincerity by first of all stopping the insults. And definitely stop referring to progressives as being the folks in left field. The meaning of being in left field is an insult too, it means strange.


.
this take is truly off the reservation and not reflective of reality in any way shape or form. if you think conservatives are the only ones doing the mocking you are seriously out of your mind.
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:41 PM
 
954 posts, read 374,694 times
Reputation: 1754
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELOrocks17 View Post
I find that liberals only care about "novelty politics".

Voted for a complete political novice named Obama...why? So we can have the 1st black POTUS.

Voted for ultra corrupt Hillary..why? So we can have the 1st woman POTUS.

They have zero clue on what political stance these fools have. Thats how that collosal ditz AOC got elected..for the sheer novelty of it.
I voted for Trump for the novelty of having (1) the first POTUS since Hoover without any political or military experience, and (2) the first reality TV POTUS ever.

It backfired spectacularly.
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:43 PM
 
718 posts, read 129,282 times
Reputation: 430
the left wants to tax the hell out of the rich and businesses so they can unsuccessfully try to legislate more equality. that is it in one sentence.
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:45 PM
 
1,352 posts, read 691,441 times
Reputation: 782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_N_1962 View Post
the left wants to tax the hell out of the rich and businesses so they can unsuccessfully try to legislate more equality. that is it in one sentence.

They tax the hell out of corporations, who use loopholes their lobbying money paid for to offshore money in places like Ireland, then sit on the money funding such contributions to society like artificial intelligence to make workers redundant, who then vote Democrat because they can't subsist without jobs they've lost due to liberal policies.
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Old 06-11-2019, 04:44 AM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
4,348 posts, read 2,975,717 times
Reputation: 2030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry View Post
Except you cannot name a big government policy that worked. And you won't even try to answer.
Lol...the military, the public school system, highways, making slavery illegal, segregation bans, etc.
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