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Old 06-11-2019, 10:31 AM
Location: Texas
26,854 posts, read 11,272,396 times
Reputation: 6168


Originally Posted by Clintone View Post
Lol...the military, the public school system, highways, making slavery illegal, segregation bans, etc.
How's being policemen of the world working out. 9/11 ring a bell?
Our public school system has gone downhill since the Dept of Education and their one size fits all policy came about. Gee I wonder if you went to a public school?
You mean state highways vs federal highways?
Making slavery illegal was taking away big governments ability to violate a basic right. It got government out of our lives
Segregation was the reversal of big government forcing others to bow to their will. It got government out of our lives

You're not very good at this.
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:45 PM
1,324 posts, read 301,466 times
Reputation: 1557
Originally Posted by jertheber View Post
Me thinks you may be a bit overboard with the bluster radio stuff, those who make such sweeping statements about either side are usually the ones who can be considered the extreme factions of both sides. Unfortunately, the CD forums seem to attract these kinds of posters, so it's not really thought of as a valid source of opinion. I'd say that most of America wants more affordable health care, either by government edict, or, through some type of mass consumer action the could possibly allow for a huge private enterprise (Amazon) to begin the march toward a national health collective. The other big concern for us all is our labor laws and the government's support of the citizen against that collective of corporate power which has undermined our democracy.

There is no "utopia" of the left, further, there is no obvious attempt to create equal outcomes with regard to contribution. The left has done more to combat the mindlessness of corporate encouraged consumerism, the left has been more active in labor relations while those on the conservative end has traditionally been anti union, and pro business. Your views are more apt to fit the description of an extreme side of the American left, but certainly fails to offer a definitive view of the average lefty.

Most of those of the left persuasion want our tax dollars to help society as a whole, while the conservative bent has traditionally been associated with tax relief for our wealthiest corporations, not to mention the fact of our huge defense cost being a basic mugging of the American taxpayer, and, that defense becomes an offense, for the purpose of obtaining natural resources from other sovereign entities. Your post seems to reflect the vitriol of those who feel the left is a polar opposite of the right, but in practice, most of us want a responsive government, one that serves the majority, and moreover, one that isn't ran by corporate power.
Who are you to judge the validity of anyone's opinion but your own?

"Affordable" is a subjective term and people decide what's affordable for them, not some leftist bureaucrat who believes a service is a right that must be guaranteed by the resources of others. That is why Obamacare failed. Leftists decided the middle class could afford the cost of their own insurance plus subsidize someone else's insurance through second-mortgage sized premiums. You already tried government edicts disguised as insurance policies and they were a giant bust.

You're right. There is no utopia on the left. And there never will be.

The combination of labor unions and leftists is a self-licking ice cream cone. Unions have all but abandoned the worker in favor of preserving political power for democrats while enriching themselves at the expense of the workers they supposedly represent. Frankly, they are a joke.

Conservatives want responsible and responsive government while taxing the citizenry as little as possible. We want tax breaks for individuals and families. Some people believe taxation is theft and I'm inclined to agree on principle. The left wants to enslave populations with exorbitant tax rates and dictate what kind and amount of health care they can have. In the end, you're just another number to a bureaucrat bean counter who lives to apply actuarial averages to your life situation. Leftists love to treat people like the horses in Animal Farm. "You must work harder!", they say, and when your life is no longer viable from an economic standpoint, you get the best mandatory end of life care a collective VA medical system can provide. LOL

My viewpoint is not extreme nor is it on the periphery of reality where leftists proffer endless freebies to people who think they are owed a comfortable life because they exist.
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:03 AM
1,448 posts, read 827,694 times
Reputation: 2211
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
More economic equality, less debt for most Americans

(debt free) Healthcare coverage for all Americans

Available higher education for all Americans

Less wars

More international cooperation on climate change

The working and middle class have a greater influence on government

Greater social and economic mobility for minority groups

Having corporations have less influence on American culture

Developing strong community centric neighborhoods

Best public infrastructure

More environmental protection for wild lands
As someone from the Right field, I can still honestly say this is a list I can largely agree with.

...and even on the parts I disgaree with, it's still a good, clean, concise list that can be expanded upon in an coherent manner that befits true cooperation and civil discourse.

Although, I do have my criticism, largely of the Left field. See, there are 2 threads that I"ve dug through, "What do folks in the left field want?" and "What do folks in the right field want?"

The right side has a much greater prevalence of rational, clear, indentifiable goals, much like your post. The left side has a much lower prevalence of ..well... posts like yours.

That gives credibility to the notion that the left, as a political entity, is fickle, subjective and, feels rather than thinks. As such, I typically try to lean right.

Cards on the table, I don't like change.

I mean, who like driving down a road where the speed limit sign changes everyday? I damn sure don't...
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:17 AM
3,955 posts, read 4,093,207 times
Reputation: 2629
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
They shouldn't be looking to the government to provide that though. That's the key difference between left and right I think.

If the marketplace doesn't provide it and doesn't come close for many and for many decades, then some sort of government intervention may be necessary. If you think affordable wages and affordable healthcare are justified expectations or rights.
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:20 AM
3,955 posts, read 4,093,207 times
Reputation: 2629
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
The left wants equal outcomes, regardless oF individual ability, intelligence, motivation, or effort. When my liberal area was debating whether to require the "set-aside" workforce housing units required in a new apartment building to have the same granite and upscale finishes as the market-rate units, the liberals argued that "poor people deserve granite and stainless steel appliances just as much as richer people."

Yes, that's how ridiculous it's gotten.

That is gamesmanship that I wouldn't support and would discourage if close to the bargaining.
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:31 AM
3,955 posts, read 4,093,207 times
Reputation: 2629
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry View Post
Except you cannot name a big government policy that worked. And you won't even try to answer.

8 hour work days. Sunday off at least. Minimum wage. Workplace safety & health. Food safety. Product safety. Public universities. Public research. Managed public lands (should be managed more and more consistently and more for the public over the few). Bank regulation. The interstate system. A lot of what the FBI did in fighting organized crime, corruption, etc. Most applications of civil rights law. Anti-trust action. The internet. Facilitating the railroads. Dams for water supply and flood control. Social Security over nothing. Medicaid for the poor and the unlucky hurt and sick. The Space program and all the spinoff technology. Winning World War II. Saving country multiple times from speculator excesses / caused bubbles. Surely there is more, but time for me to sign-off.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:34 PM
Location: San Jose
2,179 posts, read 658,306 times
Reputation: 2327
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry View Post

Yet your big government polices ALWAYS fail.
Was the construction of the Interstate Highway System a failure? Is the military a big failure?
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