U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-13-2019, 10:50 AM
 
Location: New York
1,413 posts, read 273,751 times
Reputation: 1048

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
Without government, people are free. Free to enslave each other.

How did you come to that conclusion? When we talk about people being free we are talking about individual freedom. Do you honestly believe individuals are inclined to enslave other individuals?

How exactly does that square in your head? If we want all individuals to be free and one enslaves another that is the polar opposite. It makes no sense at all.

Your statement and the premise is absolute rubbish.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Nobody can enslave others without the help from the government.

Name one case, please.
EXACTLY!

It is the government that allows corporations to enslave workers. It was the government that allowed company stores and company housing which effectively made every employee an indentured servant, a slave in perpetuity.

I can't wrap my head around any person living/raised in this country that can honestly believe a socialist state is a good idea. Socialism is just Marxism light. Stalin said that socialists are just people who really want to be communists. He was absolutely correct.

People from socialist countries are trying their damn hardest to get here, not the other way around.


Tell any socialist/Marxist living here to move to a socialist/communist country and they would refuse. No, they simply want to sell snake oil, smoke, and mirrors, illusions, an ideology which always fails and causes the deaths of millions of people in the process. SCREW THAT! That is not good for anyone.



To want to trade capitalism, even with all the issues of wealth inequality, for equal poverty is simply mindnumbing to me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-13-2019, 10:52 AM
 
17,801 posts, read 19,817,095 times
Reputation: 7451
What is the most consistent thing the left have done all these years.... Gerrymander power to themselves by stealing money and direct it to their donor group.... Under the guise of equality and saving the planet... Sad to think that most liberals are that stupid....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-13-2019, 10:58 AM
 
3,296 posts, read 1,875,937 times
Reputation: 2448
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
None of the Bill of Rights is a natural right. It’s just a list of privileges being Americans.
Quote:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.."--- Preamble to the Declaration of Independence.
Our Constitution spells out specifically what those unalienable rights are.

Since our Creator whomever or whatever they or that may be created everything known to man, and if we are endowed by our Creator with "certain unalienable rights" then of course they are natural rights. As man and certainly not any body of men are our Creator. If the founders wanted those rights to be a list of privileges for just being American. They would have worded it as so. Instead of the Bill of Rights they would have called it the Bill of Privileges.

Quote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their GOVERNMENT or an elected body of officials with certain unalienable privileges, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.."
The reason why they chose our Creator to endow us with those rights is so that no man or any body of men could take them away. It's the guiding principle that this country was founded on. To believe otherwise is to believe in statism and the power of the state above all else. A concept that the founders of this great nation fought and won a revolution against. Only those that seek power and control over every aspect of our lives believe in the power of the state and statism above all else.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-13-2019, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Divided Tribes of America
13,720 posts, read 5,529,326 times
Reputation: 5391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
How did you come to that conclusion? When we talk about people being free we are talking about individual freedom. Do you honestly believe individuals are inclined to enslave other individuals?

How exactly does that square in your head? If we want all individuals to be free and one enslaves another that is the polar opposite. It makes no sense at all.

Your statement and the premise is absolute rubbish.
Everyone wants to be rich. Itís not possible to become rich without having control of someone elseís labor. If you give people the freedom to enslave each other, they will. History has proven that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
It is the government that allows corporations to enslave workers. It was the government that allowed company stores and company housing which effectively made every employee an indentured servant, a slave in perpetuity.

I can't wrap my head around any person living/raised in this country that can honestly believe a socialist state is a good idea. Socialism is just Marxism light. Stalin said that socialists are just people who really want to be communists. He was absolutely correct.

People from socialist countries are trying their damn hardest to get here, not the other way around.


Tell any socialist/Marxist living here to move to a socialist/communist country and they would refuse. No, they simply want to sell snake oil, smoke, and mirrors, illusions, an ideology which always fails and causes the deaths of millions of people in the process. SCREW THAT! That is not good for anyone.



To want to trade capitalism, even with all the issues of wealth inequality, for equal poverty is simply mindnumbing to me.
government =/= socialism
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-13-2019, 11:18 AM
 
3,296 posts, read 1,875,937 times
Reputation: 2448
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
It’s called reality.

If they were natural right, why do only Americans have them not anybody else? Rights can’t be taken away.
They should but not every country was founded on the principles of which this country was. Our country is unique in that respect. It's why this country was founded as a Constitutional Republic and not a Democracy as many would like and many are led to believe. A lot of countries don't believe in natural rights they believe in the power of the state or a monarchy to grant or rescind any rights as they see fit. Our Constitution is designed and written to prevent that.

Quote:
A Constitutional Republic is a form of government where the head of state and other officials are elected as representatives of the people, representatives mandated to govern according to existing constitutional law. It is because of this mandate that the elected class in a Constitutional Republic is limited in their power over the citizenry. The United States of America was created as and intended to survive as a Constitutional Republic.

Our Constitutional Republic is separated into three separate but equal branches of government; the Executive, Legislative and Judicial, represented by the Presidency, Congress and the Courts. Because of this no branch has a rein on absolute power thus assuring that there will be checks and balances to the governmental system and protection for the rule of law.

Through the elected representation employed by our Constitutional Republic the influence of the majority is tempered by protections for individual rights as mandated by constitutional law. Our form of government is deliberate in its attempt to thwart majoritarianism, thereby protecting political dissent and individuals and minority groups from the "tyranny of the majority" by placing checks on the power of the majority of the population. The power of the majority of the people is checked by limiting that power to electing representatives who are required to legislate with limits of overarching constitutional law which a simple majority cannot modify.

"A pure unbridled democracy is a political system in which the majority enjoys absolute power by means of democratic elections. In an unvarnished democracy, unrestrained by a constitution, the majority can vote to impose tyranny on themselves and the minority opposition. They can vote to elect those who will infringe upon our inalienable God-given rights. Thomas Jefferson referred to this as elected despotism in Notes on the State of Virginia (also cited in Federalist 48 by Madison):"

Last edited by Ex New Yorker; 06-13-2019 at 12:12 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-13-2019, 12:27 PM
 
Location: San Jose
2,135 posts, read 645,662 times
Reputation: 2260
Most American leftist are strong proponents of Social Democracy. So the "left" in America would never even aim to try and gain full power. This American leftist would much prefer a system with more then just two political parties and far greater representation from the working and middle classes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-13-2019, 12:31 PM
 
7,319 posts, read 3,775,514 times
Reputation: 3793
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
What is the most consistent thing the left have done all these years.... Gerrymander power to themselves by stealing money and direct it to their donor group.... Under the guise of equality and saving the planet... Sad to think that most liberals are that stupid....
Has anyone notified the police about this theft?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-13-2019, 12:39 PM
 
1,352 posts, read 693,016 times
Reputation: 782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
Everyone wants to be rich. Itís not possible to become rich without having control of someone elseís labor. If you give people the freedom to enslave each other, they will. History has proven that.




government =/= socialism
Under socialism, you know who's going to be allowed to be rich? The people who already are rich. Talking about 1 percent rich, not what people see as rich. That's what real oligarchy looks like. People like Bill Gates or Zuckerberg, would've never been able to become rich, the state would've controlled their contributions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-13-2019, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Divided Tribes of America
13,720 posts, read 5,529,326 times
Reputation: 5391
Quote:
Originally Posted by nedergras View Post
Under socialism, you know who's going to be allowed to be rich? The people who already are rich. Talking about 1 percent rich, not what people see as rich. That's what real oligarchy looks like. People like Bill Gates or Zuckerberg, would've never been able to become rich, the state would've controlled their contributions.
It sounds like you have no problem with oligarchy, so long as there are occasional new entrants.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-13-2019, 12:44 PM
 
1,352 posts, read 693,016 times
Reputation: 782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
It sounds like you have no problem with oligarchy, so long as there are occasional new entrants.
They're not trying to kill us or enslave us, people like you want to throw away all of our freedom and liberties just for some handouts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top