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Old 06-12-2019, 08:24 PM
 
50,700 posts, read 26,743,691 times
Reputation: 15870

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RageX View Post
I don't deny what happened to Black Americans, and in part is still happening. Your posts, in particular, about how Black Americans have a uniquely tragic history that has completely separated them from their culture of origin, hold great truth. Even the Native Americans and Carribeans can still retain a semblance to their culture of origin.

...but, I'm not gonna tolerate something even close to the idea that White society needs to be overwritten or disintegrated.

My grandparents came over on the Ellis Island boats, so I'm in no way the descendant of plantation owners, and the the vast majority of the descendents of the Pilgrims weren't slave owners, either.

I am sick and tired of it even being suggested that I should apologize for my existence because of my physical resemblance to said people.
This is being over dramatic.

We’re simply saying that we are connected to our Slave ancestors, and that the vestiges of what happened in this country are still here and are manifestly obvious.

No one ever said that you bear responsibility for slavery. Don’t even know where you’re digging that up from. Whites seem offended by us even bringing up slavery, as if mentioning it is wounding them somehow.

It happened, African Americans are intrinsically connected to it, and we won’t hesitate to bring it up and honor the sufferers of that system anytime we feel like it. If that bothers any non blacks, then they should step to us and make us stop doing it immediately...if they can.

 
Old 06-12-2019, 08:57 PM
 
1,434 posts, read 820,283 times
Reputation: 2189
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
This is being over dramatic.

1.We’re simply saying that we are connected to our Slave ancestors, and that the vestiges of what happened in this country are still here and are manifestly obvious.

2.No one ever said that you bear responsibility for slavery. Don’t even know where you’re digging that up from. Whites seem offended by us even bringing up slavery, as if mentioning it is wounding them somehow.

It happened, African Americans are intrinsically connected to it, and we won’t hesitate to bring it up and honor the sufferers of that system anytime we feel like it. 3. If that bothers any non blacks, then they should step to us and make us stop doing it immediately...if they can.[
1. You're absolutely right.

2. You personally haven't said anything like that but, it is a routine narrative splashed across the media and, every so often I hear that kind of stance with my own ears.

3. I have successfully accomplished this 5 times, unsuccessfly 2 times. Not the biggest or best record per se but, it beats the hell out of most people's pass / fail ratio of 0 / 0.
 
Old 06-12-2019, 10:20 PM
 
50,700 posts, read 26,743,691 times
Reputation: 15870
Quote:
Originally Posted by RageX View Post
1. You're absolutely right.

2. You personally haven't said anything like that but, it is a routine narrative splashed across the media and, every so often I hear that kind of stance with my own ears.

3. I have successfully accomplished this 5 times, unsuccessfly 2 times. Not the biggest or best record per se but, it beats the hell out of most people's pass / fail ratio of 0 / 0.
Oh, you’re 5-2, huh?
 
Old 06-13-2019, 04:06 AM
 
1,434 posts, read 820,283 times
Reputation: 2189
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Oh, you’re 5-2, huh?
More than 7 altercations, just 7 related to this reason.

Just the same, I would rather it be 2-5 than 0-0.

I still maintain that people from the following countries (who have I actually met); Nigeria, Kenya, Mali, Ghana, Burkina Faso and, Ethiopia seem to value education, by percentage, more than Black Americans.
 
Old 06-13-2019, 04:07 AM
Status: "Brexit bound" (set 28 days ago)
 
3,712 posts, read 2,022,478 times
Reputation: 5310
Nigerians are the " wrong " kind of black ....
 
Old 06-13-2019, 06:17 AM
 
Location: Texas
26,724 posts, read 11,225,885 times
Reputation: 6150
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
And this is sadly how things work. Hypocrisy. Alot of people just don't want to hear about what has happened to Black Americans. Telling Black Americans to "get over it" is basically said persons way of saying "your history doesn't count". This is why no one can make me forget what happened.
You won't forget because then you wouldn't have a crutch to lean on. If you want to see who is responsible for your successes and failures look into the mirror. Man up and run your own life and quit looking for the benevolent hand of government to run it for you.
 
Old 06-13-2019, 06:35 AM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 14 days ago)
 
48,220 posts, read 45,519,102 times
Reputation: 15344
Quote:
Originally Posted by RageX View Post
I don't deny what happened to Black Americans, and in part is still happening. Your posts, in particular, about how Black Americans have a uniquely tragic history that has completely separated them from their culture of origin, hold great truth. Even the Native Americans and Carribeans can still retain a semblance to their culture of origin.

...but, I'm not gonna tolerate something even close to the idea that White society needs to be overwritten or disintegrated.

My grandparents came over on the Ellis Island boats, so I'm in no way the descendant of plantation owners, and the the vast majority of the descendents of the Pilgrims weren't slave owners, either.

I am sick and tired of it even being suggested that I should apologize for my existence because of my physical resemblance to said people.
This is the thing. I'm not asking you to forget your history. And the person I responded to was arguing from this angle. The idea was "if we are to forget about our history, then you have to forget about yours".
 
Old 06-13-2019, 07:17 AM
 
Location: *
8,105 posts, read 2,420,240 times
Reputation: 2218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicagoland60426 View Post
Brazil is considered a middle-income country(not outright third world but not as developed as the US either), so the average educated Black Brazilians is still making less than African-Americans. The average white Brazilian is making less, too.

Brazil actually has a very high rate of black entrepreneurship, but still Afro-Brazilians, on average earn just 55% of the monthly income of white Brazilians. Typically, these black-owned businesses are one person, and blacks in the country have been institutionally shut out of building wealth due to lacking capital and access to credit.
https://qz.com/africa/1224485/black-...k-afro-brazil/


The point I was trying to make is, not to say that African-Americans would make more if we were to go to Brazil, but if you were to take just about any group, especially the educated, and put them in another country they would largely do better than many of the natives, especially the ones that were historically oppressed.



I'm an advocate of African-Americans establishing a presence in other countries, especially West and Central African countries. I acknowledge the abundance of opportunities currently present here, but it's not the end to be all. At the same time, we should maintain a presence here in the US, building wealth and perhaps not being so dependent on largely white institutions anymore. If it means that many of us have to return to what some of us were already doing 100 years ago to achieve prosperity as a whole, then so be it. Today, we're much less likely to get our establishments burned down compared to back then. Every other group are doing some form of that in their own way, and that may also explain some of their success.
Agreeing with the gist of this as well. I would be an advocate for establishing a presence in other countries as well if that's what the people want, let the people decide. I just think it's shameful for this country to not acknowledge its history & to rather cling to mythologies.
 
Old 06-13-2019, 08:12 AM
 
15,475 posts, read 7,891,941 times
Reputation: 8011
Quote:
Originally Posted by RageX View Post
I don't deny what happened to Black Americans, and in part is still happening. Your posts, in particular, about how Black Americans have a uniquely tragic history that has completely separated them from their culture of origin, hold great truth. Even the Native Americans and Carribeans can still retain a semblance to their culture of origin.

...but, I'm not gonna tolerate something even close to the idea that White society needs to be overwritten or disintegrated.

My grandparents came over on the Ellis Island boats, so I'm in no way the descendant of plantation owners, and the the vast majority of the descendents of the Pilgrims weren't slave owners, either.

I am sick and tired of it even being suggested that I should apologize for my existence because of my physical resemblance to said people.

I think you have too much rage like your name implies lol.

As desertdetroiter said, black people today, we revere our ancestors, especially those who were enslaved or endured intense terrorism and oppression at the hands of mainstream (white) American society.

On your grandparents and Ellis Island, most black people are not all that invested in you as an individual or your family's history. I've mentioned on this forum many times that I'm a genealogist and I actually find all people's history and cultures fascinating. I don't get offended or defensive when other people speak of their family's background, but you seem to be one of those white people that do. It is also a fact that your white immigrant grandparents actually had opportunities in the late 19th and 20th century that were closed to black people. I have very deep roots in America. My grandparents and great grandparents could not even be hired at specific factories just because they were black. Even though all those companies would hire Irish, Hungarian, Polish, English, German, Russian, and Italian immigrants. For other companies, black people were only allowed to work in janitorial positions with the excuse that higher paying jobs was needed for white men to "take care of their families." Your family came here for opportunities that my own and all the black posters families, no matter where they lived (north, south, east, or west) could not obtain to any wide degree. So all this "my ancestors never owned slaves" mess is kind of nonsensical to me as someone who intimately knows black American history and the history of this nation and its relationship to the ideology of white supremacy. Us knowing about the trials and tribulations of our ancestors is not an attack on you or your own. I'm sure your Ellis Island ancestors probably knew nothing of the discrimination faced by black Americans who had been Americans much longer than your family.

You should stop being so rage-y about things no one is saying about you in the blue. None of us care if you have your institutions or organizations or celebrate your immigrant ancestry. What the posters have been stating to you is that you shouldn't care about ours or us speaking of and revering our ancestors and being grateful for what many of us consider the "beautiful struggle" they endured and succeeded in creating the opportunities we currently enjoy as black Americans. I am beholden only to my ancestors. I adore them. I revere them and I will always speak of them with love and respect and share their stories. Me doing so has nothing to do with people like yourself. Your idea that black people speaking of our ancestors is in any way similar to the actual "white washing" of American history of blacks out of the narrative of our country's story, is pretty laughable to me considering, as I noted that we have more of a connection to this country than you do. Our stories with white Americans from the 1600s forward are intertwined. Today, primarily the white narrative is the only one that is known. Us learning about and sharing our ancestors' experiences, does not "override" or "disintegrate" white Americans. It puts our country's story into a more accurate context.

It is interesting to me that it seems you are okay with just not speaking of "hard" and emotional subjects, such as what black people in this nation endured. That you cannot see it as inspirational and instead see it as some threat to white people and the history of whites in America. If we tell our history, it includes white people. It just includes things you'd rather continue to see "overridden" and "disintegrated." lol
 
Old 06-13-2019, 08:29 AM
 
15,475 posts, read 7,891,941 times
Reputation: 8011
On culture, I'll note that the cultures of indigenous Americans have also been heavily impacted and in many cases eradicated. Caribbeans, not sure what one means by that term - the black slaves shipped to the Caribbean of which the population of most islands is based upon - they also had their African cultures stripped from them in the same fashion as black Americans did.

We have a similar story in that regard. Even Nigerians in Nigeria have had their native cultures reduced by colonialism, as have all of the African continent prior to both the European and before them the Islamic invasion of the continent.

The idea that black Americans don't have a culture, is incorrect. We do have a culture and our cultural roots include African, European, and even some indigenous American aspects. But it is very heavily African from an historic perspective, especially if we review activities of the first black Americans of the 18th century. Our historic institutions and societies included African elements from various ethnic, cultural backgrounds. As African Americans we are a unique tribe of the African diaspora. The one most known about so the most negatively discussed. IMO in more ways than one we actually are the "most successful" and that is primarily because of our conscious movement including the embrace of our African diaspora brethren and sisters for over 100 years, but especially during the 20th century when black Americans were the ones who were the first to get well known "wins" against discrimination and then subsequently pushed the idea that being black and of African ancestry was not anything to be ashamed of. Slavery is not anything to be ashamed of. That we are strong people all over the world.

Another poster mentioned they ascribed to Pan African beliefs. IMO most black Americans do. I do as well which is why the premise of this thread really is just another sort of tool of white supremacy in attempting to destroy the bond that black Americans have with our African ancestry. I have done DNA test and unlike what the silly commercials show - one cannot "know" their tribal or ethnic roots based on percentages if you are a part of the African diaspora. I actually do searches of my DNA matches to find those who have recent roots in African nations. I have 8 matches who were born in Nigeria and whose grandparents were born in Nigeria. I have Efik, Ibo, Edo, and Urhobo cousins on DNA websites who I have communicated with. I also have Ghanaian matches, since our Ghanaian American poster spoke up who are of various Akan subroupts. I recently found records of one of my only known African ancestors who was enslaved in NY/NJ in the 1700s. He was from the Senegambia region of West Africa and I have cousins as well from Senegal.

So African Americans are descended of various African cultures. Once our ancestors got here, they created their own culture, similar to what people of African descent did in various Caribbean islands. For instance Haitians and Jamaicans have different cultures versus Bermudans or Bahamian people. We are all a bit different culturally but we are all African ancestored (if we are black people from these places). The idea that we have had our culture "stolen" is kind of right and wrong. One was lost and another was created. Personally I don't pine for the lost ones because there are way too many of them to pick to choose which one we should mourn. Instead I revere my ancestors (which as a poster mentioned is an African tradition) and am grateful for those that survived so I could be born and be their answered prayer for a better future for their children.
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