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Old 06-14-2019, 03:53 AM
 
Location: Metro Seattle Area - Born and Raised
718 posts, read 293,398 times
Reputation: 1762

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
But how will this logic address my argument that two women may easily be overpowered by multiple teenage males or grown men, and whatever they have for self-defense could easily be taken from them and used to further injure them or possibly kill them?

Unless you are a woman, you will not understand how women generally feel in the face of one or more men who are out to hurt us. We are weaker and have a harder time fighting back, a gun or knife can be wrestled from our hands and used against us, especially if it isn't just one on one as this fight was not. They can do damage before we even have a chance to grab our weapons, as it's not like we'll have them in our hands 24/7 waiting for a potential attack. They can take the bag we may be carrying that we may have the weapon in. In this case, their bags and phones were actually stolen according to the article. A lot can go wrong in fights with weapons, especially when it is multiple men against two women. Having a weapon for self-defense won't necessarily deter crime or help someone being attacked. My fear is they can lead to further injuries.

Also, this happened on a public bus. Having and using a gun on an enclosed public space like a bus doesn't sound wise. It risks other people getting hurt and it risks injuries far worse than what these men inflicted on these women. I know people are primarily talking about guns, especially because if all goes well it is probably the most effective weapon for self-defense.

Reading this story, four men against two women, do you really think they had a solid chance at defending themselves even with weapons? Honestly? I don't. Unless they had like Army or high martial arts level training to be excellent fighters, they could have been disarmed and further injured in no time. The average woman cannot take on one man, let alone two.

Also, what if they have no interest in carrying a gun or other weapon around all the time for self-defense? I know I don't. I live in a very safe area. I feel no need to carry around a weapon just in case, nor keep up training to know how to use it. I don't like guns, I don't want one.
I agree with you on most or your points and observations... BUT!! In that or any other situation, you have the choice of either fighting back with all you have or simply submit to being a victim, while hoping for the best or mercy. Being a male, that's 6 feet tall and at 250lbs... With both military ground combat training/experience and civilian law enforcement training/experience, I would make a harder target than these two innocent women. But I have three daughters and I've taught them to never be victims and to always fight back with all their might, if forced to defend themselves.

I truly hope that British Justice will be served on these four cowards. The photo of these two women being beaten is sickening. I know it's now politically correct, but were there other men on this bus when this attack happened? If so, why didn't they inject themselves into this situation to protect these two women from this attack? I know that today's western societies want men to be... Well, men that are not manly men since thats too old fashion and threatens the New Order of things. With that being said, I think that many men, today, feel that it's better to be a passive observer and maybe record the attack with their cell phones. If that's the case, western society is in serious trouble. I bet that if two men, strangers, stood up and committed themselves to act, in a physical manner, these thugs would have simply made some noise as they slithered off of the bus.

I truly believe that men and women are equal in our society, but at the same time, we're very different, which is a simple fact. I don't believe in violence, but at the same time, I believe that you have to meet violence with superior violence to end it or prevent it from happening in the first place.

I wish these to two ladies a speedy recovery and that the British courts throws the book at these thugs... Regardless if they're White, Black, Asian or Middle Eastern for this crime.

Btw, I don't care what their sexual orientation is. Furthermore, if it was two gay men, a straight couple, young kids or an elderly couple being harassed in the same manner, I'd step up and be willing to defend them as well.

I know that the United Kingdom is different than the United States, but both men and women, in both great countries, need to get out of this passive observer mode and be willing to stand up against thuggery AND protect their fellow citizen. And the courts need to to see that defending yourself and others isn't a criminal act, but more of a civic duty to ones community. If crooks knew that people will group up and attack them, in self-defense of a weaker imdividual(s), this kind of stuff would greatly decrease.
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Old 06-14-2019, 04:04 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
11,626 posts, read 3,978,642 times
Reputation: 7206
Quote:
Originally Posted by bergun View Post
I agree with you on most or your points and observations... BUT!! In that or any other situation, you have the choice of either fighting back with all you have or simply submit to being a victim, while hoping for the best or mercy. Being a male, that's 6 feet tall and at 250lbs... With both military ground combat training/experience and civilian law enforcement training/experience, I would make a harder target than these two innocent women. But I have three daughters and I've taught them to never be victims and to always fight back with all their might, if forced to defend themselves.

I truly hope that British Justice will be served on these four cowards. The photo of these two women being beaten is sickening. I know it's now politically correct, but were there other men on this bus when this attack happened? If so, why didn't they inject themselves into this situation to protect these two women from this attack? I know that today's western societies want men to be... Well, men that are not manly men since thats too old fashion and threatens the New Order of things. With that being said, I think that many men, today, feel that it's better to be a passive observer and maybe record the attack with their cell phones. If that's the case, western society is in serious trouble. I bet that if two men, strangers, stood up and committed themselves to act, in a physical manner, these thugs would have simply made some noise as they slithered off of the bus.

I truly believe that men and women are equal in our society, but at the same time, we're very different, which is a simple fact. I don't believe in violence, but at the same time, I believe that you have to meet violence with superior violence to end it or prevent it from happening in the first place.

I wish these to two ladies a speedy recovery and that the British courts throws the book at these thugs... Regardless if they're White, Black, Asian or Middle Eastern for this crime.

Btw, I don't care what their sexual orientation is. Furthermore, if it was two gay men, a straight couple, young kids or an elderly couple being harassed in the same manner, I'd step up and be willing to defend them as well.

I know that the United Kingdom is different than the United States, but both men and women, in both great countries, need to get out of this passive observer mode and be willing to stand up against thuggery AND protect their fellow citizen. And the courts need to to see that defending yourself and others isn't a criminal act, but more of a civic duty to ones community. If crooks knew that people will group up and attack them, in self-defense of a weaker imdividual(s), this kind of stuff would greatly decrease.
There are far simplier things you can do in terms of personal safety, indeed in terms of night buses, it's usually better to sit downstairs and near to the driver especially at 2.30 in the morning which is when this incident took place.

The driver has a radio and emergency link and can summon the police very quickly.

The trouble usually occurs upstairs on double decker night services, which is where this attack happened, and night buses are often not full of people, especially upstairs in the early hgoyrs of the morining on certain routes, so there may not have been anyone upstairs, however the whol;e incident was captured on the bus CCTV.

The London Underground also now offers night tube at weekends, as does London Overground.

Last edited by Brave New World; 06-14-2019 at 04:18 AM..
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