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Old 06-10-2019, 10:26 AM
 
51,862 posts, read 41,765,307 times
Reputation: 32364

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
The photo that was released of three of the suspects on CCTV showed a white kid and two others that have more neutral features, could be white, mixed, middle eastern, or Mediterranean. I believe the media this far has said that they were white.
Still not seeing any picture(s) on-line nor names released but again, maybe they're actually all under 18 and protected as juveniles etc.
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:36 AM
 
984 posts, read 165,692 times
Reputation: 561
There are a lot of people asking for pictures of the Juveniles, two thoughts on that.


1) Have we gotten so low that stupid Teens are now considered the measurement tool for assessing gun laws and immigration policy?


2) What are the laws in England regarding the release of information on Juveniles, are you all waiting for nothing? Do they release that information or have in the past. Just making sure you all are all waiting in vain because no one checked.
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
12,351 posts, read 7,498,921 times
Reputation: 15950
Thugs like these already know they're near the bottom of the pecking order -- what's needed is to convince them that further vulgarity can push them further down -- and that "the system" knows how to keep score.

Behavior like that shown by these apes needs to be recognizable -- by making them easily identifiable -- at least temporarily (tattoo on the forehead, perhaps?) and confining them to the lowest rung on the societal ladder, at least for a while (borrow a tactic or two from South Africa's apartheid playbook), but apply it instead to those who truly deserve it.

Harsh? Yes, but some of the dregs at the bottom of the barrel have to be completely broken before they can be rehabilitated.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 06-10-2019 at 11:02 AM..
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
11,584 posts, read 3,963,981 times
Reputation: 7172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultor View Post
Given the time and nature of the attack , I would have let them spend the month in juvie hall.

But that's just me.
Thewy have to be treated as innocent until proven guilty in a Court of Law, and the police will have put bail restrictions in place and will be satisfied that they will attend the Magistrates Court.

In terms of the case, it won't be done and dusted next month, it will start at the Magistrates Court, who will refer the case to the Crown Court and decide whether the five should be bailed or remanded until the Crown Court case. They will be able to issue a plea at the Magistrates, as to guilty or not guilty.

The Crown Court case, will have a summary hearing again where a plea may be heard and a date will be arranged for the full hearing in front of a Jury at a later date, and the process can last a number of months.

The Crown Court case itself will last for several days or even weeks or months in more complex cases.

These five may be advised by the lawyers to plead guilty in order to try and get a reduced sentence and given the attack is on CCTV film, however it is likely that due to the aggrevated nature of the crime they are still likely to get the full 5 years each and may get a further sentence in relation to the robbery charges. It all depends on what role they played in the attack which was captured on the CCTV on the bus.
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:51 AM
 
10,516 posts, read 2,683,290 times
Reputation: 7149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantabridgienne View Post
Gun issue aside.....When a stranger attacks you and is breaking your bones, do you think you can accurately assess whether their intent is "deadly" or not?
It may sound strange, but there was a case some years ago in a nearby county, where a guy shot another man, who was beating him, he killed the guy, the cops charged him with aggravated murder (as booze was also involved).


It went to trial and was a pretty hot debated case in the area, people were split down the middle, but in the end, he was convicted (but it was a lessor crime)and the juries reasoning, was something to the effect of, 'shooting to kill someone when you are only in danger of getting beat up, is not enough to equal ' in fear for your life'.


Although Im not sure how one tells the difference, especially when alcohol is involved, if someone is beating you up, whether they are trying to kill you or just beat you to a pulp?!!
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Old 06-10-2019, 11:02 AM
 
4,989 posts, read 2,004,877 times
Reputation: 2257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
Thewy have to be treated as innocent until proven guilty in a Court of Law, and the police will have put bail restrictions in place and will be satisfied that they will attend the Magistrates Court.

In terms of the case, it won't be done and dusted next month, it will start at the Magistrates Court, who will refer the case to the Crown Court and decide whether the five should be bailed or remanded until the Crown Court case. They will be able to issue a plea at the Magistrates, as to guilty or not guilty.

The Crown Court case, will have a summary hearing again where a plea may be heard and a date will be arranged for the full hearing in front of a Jury at a later date, and the process can last a number of months.

The Crown Court case itself will last for several days or even weeks or months in more complex cases.

These five may be advised by the lawyers to plead guilty in order to try and get a reduced sentence and given the attack is on CCTV film, however it is likely that due to the aggrevated nature of the crime they are still likely to get the full 5 years each and may get a further sentence in relation to the robbery charges. It all depends on what role they played in the attack which was captured on the CCTV on the bus.
Even in Britain, denying bail is not a presumption of guilt.

If ever there was a crime where bail should have been denied, this was it.
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Old 06-10-2019, 11:27 AM
 
12,100 posts, read 6,680,435 times
Reputation: 12950
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
It may sound strange, but there was a case some years ago in a nearby county, where a guy shot another man, who was beating him, he killed the guy, the cops charged him with aggravated murder (as booze was also involved).


It went to trial and was a pretty hot debated case in the area, people were split down the middle, but in the end, he was convicted (but it was a lessor crime)and the juries reasoning, was something to the effect of, 'shooting to kill someone when you are only in danger of getting beat up, is not enough to equal ' in fear for your life'.


Although Im not sure how one tells the difference, especially when alcohol is involved, if someone is beating you up, whether they are trying to kill you or just beat you to a pulp?!!
You never know the extent of danger when someone is attacking you. My high school friend died from one punch.

For me a punch in the eye would almost certainly detach my retina and I could go blind. Also had some past surgery making me susceptible to brain bleed. I consider all physical threats life threats because they are. Especially as people get older they can be very vulnerable to complications from forceful injury.

If someone attacks me I'm going to fight for my life using hard defense tactics. Much like someone fighting off a wild animal, you do what you must to survive.

We live in a weird time where physical fighting is kind of normalized, like we might see a girl fight on a reality show and think it's funny, and that is a bad place to be because it isn't everyone's reality.

Of course trapped and attacked by a gang, fighting back is futile. I would not talk back or fight, just try to protect my face.
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Old 06-10-2019, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
11,584 posts, read 3,963,981 times
Reputation: 7172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultor View Post

Even in Britain, denying bail is not a presumption of guilt.
It's not a presumption of guilt, however unless the police have reason to suspect you will commit further crime whilst on bail or that you will not attend the court case then they will grant bail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultor

If ever there was a crime where bail should have been denied, this was it.
Not really the women received minor injuries, and were obviously robbed and abused in relation to their sexuality but that's not serious when compared to many other offences/

It's Aggravated Section 20 Grevious Bodily Harm (GBH) and Robbery and not a very serious case such as Section 18 Grevious Bodily Harm (GBH), Manslaughter or Murder etc.

They will receive a lengthy sentence if found guilty, and must follow all bail conditions to the letter in the meantime or they will be remanded in custody.

Being charged with a crime: Remand - GOV.UK

Being charged with a crime: Bail - GOV.UK
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Old 06-10-2019, 12:10 PM
 
4,430 posts, read 869,355 times
Reputation: 1886
If this happened on American soil, each of the attacking thugs should be convicted and serve at least 7.5-10 years for attacking those 2 women.
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Old 06-10-2019, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Out West
22,699 posts, read 16,804,243 times
Reputation: 26275
Everyone is arguing about the description of the people after they've been arrested.

The real problem was that when this happened, the police asked the public to come forward with any information, but even then they gave absolutely NO description of the attackers.

That is when we should be asking the question: "Why aren't you giving us more to go on than "young with British and Spanish accents"? Why?! How the hell is anyone supposed to help find a perpetrator if the police refuse to give any type of description of the perpetrator? They didn't know the ages of the people when they were looking for them - so why hide any description of them aside from their accent?

The accent doesn't mean jack. A LOT of people who learn English over in Europe will speak English with an English accent. I distinctly remember how weird it was to me when I heard Germans speaking English with an English accent. I was expecting something from the movies - some were like that, but a lot were not.
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