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Old 06-09-2019, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Watervliet, NY
4,287 posts, read 1,586,325 times
Reputation: 7854

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
You misunderstand my posts here. The working class is getting hammered with taxes to pay for those who have the largest medical expenses (Medicare) and those who don't earn enough. We are carrying our luggage and those of too many others.

The working class would like to benefit also as we pay for all the others as well as ourselves.

Lets make it one big medical insurance pool for all, a.k.a. Medicare for all.
I would have preferred to get an Essential Plan. $44 premium for Medical, dental and vision? Low co-pays and no deductible? THAT is affordable health insurance! I have no problem paying premiums and OOP, but I would prefer reasonable amounts. Not a $4,000 deductible and 50% co-insurance!

I make too much for an EPP. The cut off is $24,000-$25,000.

We also need to take the employers out of the equation. I've seen the premium bills my former employer used to pay for their portion of the premium (it was a 75%/25% split with them paying the 75%). They'd be able to pay their employees a LOT more if they weren't also footing the bill for insurance.
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Old 06-09-2019, 09:15 AM
 
8,903 posts, read 3,948,569 times
Reputation: 1729
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
in order to cover 330 million people with medicare for all (a 75/25 INSURANCE) would cost 3-4 trillion annually


in order to cover 330 million people with a singlepayer 100% coverage would be 5.5-6.5 trillion annually


there are only 150 million tax FILERS, of those only about 80 million are actually federal tax PAYERS




the medicare for all at its LOW NUMBER works out to 37k per tax payer


the singlepayer at its LOW NUMBER works out to 68k per tax payer




we don't have enough taxpayers, and those that we have cant afford that kind of tax bill
These numbers will never work out. HC is simply not optional and so very expensive. And our overall HC costs are only going to rise over time. Single payer or not.

Consider that if we have a world war to protect our nation, money is literally no object!

Some major things to consider.

One is that looking only at costs will never get you there. Because there are huge values in HC not commonly discussed. One is the huge numbers of local jobs created and resultant expanded local commerce. Increased productivity, increased GDP. People move to communities with good HC availability, and avoid those without. HC helps build communities all over the country.

Another is the tremendous value of the outcomes of HC. That is improved quality of life for the patient, and also for the spouse and family. The improved personal and household security. The extension of quality life itself. Trillions in value every year.

Then there is the issue of dollars.

Dollars can be created. They are created every day. IMO it will take new central money creation schemes for us to meet our future HC needs. It makes no sense to tax our people to onerous levels causing more uncertainly, less personal and family security, and less ability to spend into our economy.

Sure our national debt number will rise. IMO this is inevitable. And sure we might see some inflation. But we will find just as in WW2 that our HC limits will remain based on productivity and our ability to deliver the required future HC services, not limited by any USD limitation.
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Old 06-09-2019, 09:24 AM
 
8,903 posts, read 3,948,569 times
Reputation: 1729
Quote:
Originally Posted by ContraPagan View Post
I think you are confusing catastrophic with emergency care, and under my plan everything in that category is 50% after deductible.

Here is the plan summary for the plan I signed up for. I don't see the word "catastrophic" anywhere on that page:

https://www.bsneny.com/content/neny/...-standard.html
If your plan has no yearly/lifetime limits or your maximum OOP per year is some outrageous number, then IMO you have an incomplete and even bogus insurance product!

It may be that if you are caught up in a catastrophic medical or surgical situation, your insurance company may be strong enough to negotiate you some big enough discounts making it doable for you. But I wouldn't ever myself buy a product like this. I'm sorry.
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Old 06-09-2019, 09:26 AM
 
8,903 posts, read 3,948,569 times
Reputation: 1729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
Plenty. Do some research.
Please do better if you can.

I'm a physician caring for Medicare patients for the last 45 years. And Medicare patient myself the last 3.
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Old 06-09-2019, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Houston, TX
14,698 posts, read 8,516,924 times
Reputation: 29413
Quote:
Originally Posted by ContraPagan View Post
I would have preferred to get an Essential Plan. $44 premium for Medical, dental and vision? Low co-pays and no deductible? THAT is affordable health insurance! I have no problem paying premiums and OOP, but I would prefer reasonable amounts. Not a $4,000 deductible and 50% co-insurance!

I make too much for an EPP. The cut off is $24,000-$25,000.

We also need to take the employers out of the equation. I've seen the premium bills my former employer used to pay for their portion of the premium (it was a 75%/25% split with them paying the 75%). They'd be able to pay their employees a LOT more if they weren't also footing the bill for insurance.
I work in the medical field and you would be shocked at how many doctors offices no longer offer employees medical insurance at all (including my own company.) When even doctors don't offer medical insurance, we have a crisis
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Old 06-09-2019, 09:33 AM
 
8,903 posts, read 3,948,569 times
Reputation: 1729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Snacks View Post
I work in the medical field and you would be shocked at how many doctors offices no longer offer employees medical insurance at all (including my own company.) When even doctors don't offer medical insurance, we have a crisis
Well I can tell you as a doc in private practice at the same location since 1981.

Office business overheads have steadily risen about like any business, while medically related reimbursements have not.

So due to this ongoing squeeze, it becomes progressively less profitable to do a medical office. Even in a low COL area.

So these sorts of perks get progressively harder to offer and stay in business.

I've not had a raise since 1988!

Our office still has a medical plan. But we couldn't cover my wife, as she alone would have doubled everyone elses rates!

In fact I am presently quit of the office taking care of my wife. Possibly to join with our hospital later this year when she is well enough.
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Old 06-09-2019, 10:01 AM
 
4,357 posts, read 892,282 times
Reputation: 2430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
For some yes, others no, and in Canada. You can keep it. I prefer the opposite approach.
No govt involvement, more choices, greater innovation, no cronyism and competition.
Wrong.

If you are part of a HMO, which most are, you have to go to a doctor in network. You have to use a lab in network. You have to go into a hospital in network. You have to pay a deductible, co-pay and premiums.

In Canada, I can go to any doctor I chose. There are no HMOs. Doctors run their own clinics, in other words, are in business for themselves, but are paid through universal healthcare. No deductible, no co-pays and my taxes, which are MARGINALLY higher than in the USA, pay for the premiums.

The vast majority of Canadians would never accept a USA system. A majority of Americans would prefer a Canadian system.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...esponsibility/

Fact remains, Canadians live longer. Total healthcare costs are 1/3 less.
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Old 06-09-2019, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
13,006 posts, read 4,912,168 times
Reputation: 5744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
" We pay roughly twice as much as comparable countries and get a lesser result."


NOT when you factor in the TAXES they pay to get it.
That is as a percentage of GDP. And it is fact. Taxes deal with how you pay not what you pay.

Last edited by lvmensch; 06-09-2019 at 10:33 AM..
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Old 06-09-2019, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Watervliet, NY
4,287 posts, read 1,586,325 times
Reputation: 7854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
If your plan has no yearly/lifetime limits or your maximum OOP per year is some outrageous number, then IMO you have an incomplete and even bogus insurance product!

It may be that if you are caught up in a catastrophic medical or surgical situation, your insurance company may be strong enough to negotiate you some big enough discounts making it doable for you. But I wouldn't ever myself buy a product like this. I'm sorry.
You obviously never even looked at the link, or read all of the information. Kind of like a lot of callers I speak to (I actually work phones for the Marketplace), who get notices from the Marketplace and don't read past the 1st page and call up freaking about why their coverage level is changing. That's assuming they even look at their notices instead of pitching them with the rest of their "junk mail."

If you scroll down to Contracts and Resources, you'll find a Summary of Benefits and Services. My in network out of pocket limit is $7,600, out of network is $10,000.
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Old 06-09-2019, 10:23 AM
 
8,903 posts, read 3,948,569 times
Reputation: 1729
Quote:
Originally Posted by ContraPagan View Post
You obviously never even looked at the link, or read all of the information. Kind of like a lot of callers I speak to (I actually work phones for the Marketplace), who get notices from the Marketplace and don't read past the 1st page and call up freaking about why their coverage level is changing. That's assuming they even look at their notices instead of pitching them with the rest of their "junk mail."

If you scroll down to Contracts and Resources, you'll find a Summary of Benefits and Services. My in network out of pocket limit is $7,600, out of network is $10,000.
I did look at your link and couldn't find your maximums.
Thank you.
You do then have catastrophic overage. Good for you!
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