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Old 06-08-2019, 09:54 AM
 
Location: PSL
8,231 posts, read 2,213,560 times
Reputation: 2936

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd View Post
Why don't the auto makers keep progressing and striving for better MPG on their own? What consumer wouldn't want to get more miles to the gallon so give it to them?



Why do they need a Government mandate to make a decision that will benefit the consumer and the planet?
Because lemming society. Only .gov knows best...
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Old 06-08-2019, 09:58 AM
 
2,846 posts, read 899,210 times
Reputation: 4243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultor View Post
Since their power to regulate comes from an EPA edict, California will compromise eventually.

No they won't. Cars sold in California have always had a different standard when it came to pollution. They have the right to restrict polluting cars from being sold there, or moved there.
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Old 06-08-2019, 10:09 AM
 
Location: PSL
8,231 posts, read 2,213,560 times
Reputation: 2936
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd View Post
Why don't the auto makers keep progressing and striving for better MPG on their own? What consumer wouldn't want to get more miles to the gallon so give it to them?



Why do they need a Government mandate to make a decision that will benefit the consumer and the planet?
Because aftermarket solutions exist and manufacturers are too worried about cost savings, planned obsolescence.

I've installed these.
https://www.gearvendors.com/index.html

Full VegiStroke V4 Kit - Biofuels Technologies

And other goodies.

Ever see a 1 ton F350 dually get 30+MPG?
I have. Doesn't happen from the factory when it must conform to .gov regulations and manufacturer cost savings/planned obsolescence.

You might be asking why those double overdrive units aren't a thing... they're becoming a thing with the advent of 8 and 10 speed automatic transmissions.
However they aren't succeeding in longevity or robustness.

Reason being...
Mostly the vehicles with said transmissions can only be afforded by boomers.
Boomers hate feeling shifts, PCMs are being programmed to massage clutches, combined with lower line pressures, = premature transmission failure.
You want more holding force inside a transmission hydraulic circuit going to clutches, bands/brakes, and sprags.
Feeling shifts firm shifts are a good thing. Massaging clutches=higher temperatures. Higher temperatures destroys fluid and internals.

Only way to circumvent it aside from tuning, is going wide open throttle from take off to cruising speed.
my 2014 Silverado should have a transmission failure or 2 by now. It doesnt.
Why?
When it was bone stock, wide open throttle 99%.
I modified it and tuned it.
Not only will it throw you in your seat, keep you pinned in the seat, chip tires going into 2nd 3rd and 4th, it shifts HARD. Trans fluid temperature decreased. Hmmm... I wonder if increased line pressure and engaging components opposed to massaging/slipping for a seamless/soft shift has anything to do with it...
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Old 06-08-2019, 10:12 AM
 
4,989 posts, read 2,013,678 times
Reputation: 2257
Quote:
Originally Posted by WMak70 View Post
No they won't. Cars sold in California have always had a different standard when it came to pollution. They have the right to restrict polluting cars from being sold there, or moved there.
Not always, just since the early 1970s... and there comes a point where being different for the sake of being different won't get you very far.

In this case, California's original regulatory powers were bestowed by the EPA... the powers can also be taken away by the EPA.

California will compromise rather than lose the power to regulate.
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Old 06-08-2019, 10:15 AM
 
2,846 posts, read 899,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultor View Post
Not always, just since the early 1970s... and there comes a point where being different for the sake of being different won't get you very far.

In this case, California's original regulatory powers were bestowed by the EPA... the powers can also be taken away by the EPA.

California will compromise rather than lose the power to regulate.
Each State has the right to determine it's own vehicle requirements. For example, here in Florida, I can drive a car without fenders , or hood, with modified exhaust, etc. Don't try that in Pennsylvania, or some other States.

California has a unique situation with their smog and they have to try to do whatever they can to minimize this problem, and cars are the major contributor.
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Old 06-08-2019, 10:21 AM
 
Location: PSL
8,231 posts, read 2,213,560 times
Reputation: 2936
Quote:
Originally Posted by WMak70 View Post
Each State has the right to determine it's own vehicle requirements. For example, here in Florida, I can drive a car without fenders , or hood, with modified exhaust, etc. Don't try that in Pennsylvania, or some other States.

California has a unique situation with their smog and they have to try to do whatever they can to minimize this problem, and cars are the major contributor.
We can't have military hummers to drive on the roads.
But absolutely can have FloridaMan mobiles with black garbage bags in place of what once was a window. Missing fenders inoperable lights...
Register a military hummer? Not only no. But hell no.

I don't get it...

I love Florida. But that one is derp jackpot.
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Old 06-08-2019, 10:22 AM
 
4,989 posts, read 2,013,678 times
Reputation: 2257
Quote:
Originally Posted by WMak70 View Post
Each State has the right to determine it's own vehicle requirements. For example, here in Florida, I can drive a car without fenders , or hood, with modified exhaust, etc. Don't try that in Pennsylvania, or some other States.

California has a unique situation with their smog and they have to try to do whatever they can to minimize this problem, and cars are the major contributor.

Time will tell.
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Old 06-08-2019, 11:56 AM
 
32,510 posts, read 26,406,003 times
Reputation: 19161
a couple of things here;


1: by federal law there can be only TWO emissions standards, those that meet the 49 state standard, and those that meet the california standard. it was done this way to prevent the very thing the automakers are whining about.


2: there is no law that says that the automakers cannot use california standards on all their cars if they so choose, as long as they at least meet federal standards for 49 state emissions packages.


that being the case then there should be no issues what so ever.
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Old 06-08-2019, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Long Island
33,136 posts, read 13,986,163 times
Reputation: 7077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd View Post
Why don't the auto makers keep progressing and striving for better MPG on their own? What consumer wouldn't want to get more miles to the gallon so give it to them?



Why do they need a Government mandate to make a decision that will benefit the consumer and the planet?
That never happened going back to the 1980's when Japan made a better product and more recently in 2008. The solution wasn't to compete and make a better product it was to ask for protection and raise tariffs on imported cars. Detroit got a wake up call after the recession and really improved their product because of pressure.


This isn't just about a better product. its about generating less pollution and with gas below $3 a gallon consumers aren't making choices solely on mileage.
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Old 06-08-2019, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Long Island
33,136 posts, read 13,986,163 times
Reputation: 7077
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
a couple of things here;


1: by federal law there can be only TWO emissions standards, those that meet the 49 state standard, and those that meet the california standard. it was done this way to prevent the very thing the automakers are whining about.


2: there is no law that says that the automakers cannot use california standards on all their cars if they so choose, as long as they at least meet federal standards for 49 state emissions packages.


that being the case then there should be no issues what so ever.
California has the worst problem but they aren't alone, Dallas, Pittsburgh, Salt Lake and others, Manufacturers didn't realize what they were getting into, I don't see them using the CA standard on all their cars or the 2016 standards.
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