U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Would you rather pay $5000 more in private premiums than $2000 more in health care taxes?
Yes, paying more to the insurance companies ensure that I am free 27 29.67%
No, paying less into a Medicare-style system is the sensible thing to do 64 70.33%
Voters: 91. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-09-2019, 09:53 AM
 
5,414 posts, read 2,003,807 times
Reputation: 6863

Advertisements

Membership in private HMO/PPO "big insurance" made large gains in the 1980's and soon took over the healthcare industry.

In 1980, national healthcare expenditures was $1,100 per capita. In 2012 it had exploded to $8,925 per capita
(source: https://www.kff.org/health-costs/sli...es-per-capita/)

Big private insurance has failed miserably at controlling healthcare costs.

Let's face the facts here: The big private insurance model is broken, it's not sustainable and they have been failing at cost control for decades. Then, to add insult to injury, they have the nerve to make profits on their failures.

Big Insurance should be fired. They had their chance to succeed and they didn't. It's time to implement universal healthcare, it'll be cheaper and is non-profit. We can't afford Big Insurance any longer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-09-2019, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,226 posts, read 3,005,081 times
Reputation: 9580
The private sector will always do a better job than government.

If you want socialism, move to Venezuela.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2019, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Watervliet, NY
4,240 posts, read 1,564,524 times
Reputation: 7796
Quote:
Originally Posted by engineman View Post
The private sector will always do a better job than government.

If you want socialism, move to Venezuela.
I'd much rather move to Norway.

https://billmoyers.com/story/after-l...eels-backward/

Quote:
Maybe our politicians donít want to talk about the Nordic Model because it shows so clearly that capitalism can be put to work for the many, not just the few.

Consider the Norwegian*welfare state. Itís universal. In other words, aid to the sick or the elderly is not charity, grudgingly donated by elites to those in need. It is the*right*of every individual citizen. That includes every woman, whether or not she is somebodyís wife, and every child, no matter its parentage. Treating every person as a citizen affirms the individuality of each and the equality of all. It frees every person from being legally possessed by another ó a husband, for example or a tyrannical father.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2019, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Ohio
19,873 posts, read 14,217,545 times
Reputation: 16058
Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
I don't get the objection some have to universal healthcare.
The Tuskegee Syphilis Study.

Do you deny your government did that? I sure hope not, because they did.

The Atomic Veterans and New Jersey Victims.

Do you deny your government did that? I sure hope not, because they did. The US government spent 50 years denying it had ever conducted nuclear weapons tests on US soil, in spite of the fact that the tests were published in newspapers and hotels in Reno, Nevada held roof-top parties for guests to watch the test-shots and some even filmed them with their film cameras. Many people in New Jersey died of thyroid cancer, while many more had to have their thyroids removed, and still many more are on medication to this day.

Your Congress has repeatedly refused to compensate them, but strange how your government managed warn Eastman-Kodak (headquartered in New Jersey at the time) to protect its film and negatives from the fall-out by storing them in lead-lined vaults.

Do you deny 89 Americans were murdered by your government during illegal radiation experiments at Cincinnati General Hospital?

I sure hope not. It's been estimated that more than 360 were murdered, maybe as many as 400. It's still unknown, because those documents are still classified, even those Dr Sanger who ran those illegal experiments admitted it in newspaper interviews and in court where the victim's families sued.

Do you deny this?...

"VA adherence to the DOD "no exposures" doctrine, often in the face of compelling clinical evidence to the contrary, could be viewed as Department-wide medical malpractice. - the Honorable Jesse Brown, Secretary of Veteran's Affairs

I sure hope not.

What if it were this...

"Medical adherence to the Medicare "no HIV" doctrine, often in the face of compelling clinical evidence to the contrary, could be viewed as Department-wide medical malpractice.

Or this...

"Medical adherence to the Medicare "no Ebola" doctrine, often in the face of compelling clinical evidence to the contrary, could be viewed as Department-wide medical malpractice.

Or this...

"Medical adherence to the Medicare "no Alzheimer's" doctrine, often in the face of compelling clinical evidence to the contrary, could be viewed as Department-wide medical malpractice.

Or this...

"Medical adherence to the Medicare "no Opiod-crisis" doctrine, often in the face of compelling clinical evidence to the contrary, could be viewed as Department-wide medical malpractice.


What would get your attention?

Your government has a habit of running amok, and to give them power and control over your medical records and your medical care is just too great a temptation for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
In Canada, after you get rid of all the anecdotal things about wait lines etc., the fact remains that Canada spends 1/3 less as a percentage of GDP than the USA with better outcomes.
The CONCORD Study shows the US did better than Canada.

The 5-year survival rate for the 4 most common cancers:

Breast Cancer: UK 69.7% while US leads the World at 83.9% If you're a woman, you want to be in the US, not the UK.

Colorectal Men: UK 42.3% while US leads the World at 59.1%

Colorectal Women: 44.7% for the UK while US leads the World at 60.2%

Prostate: UK 51.1% while US leads the World at 91.9% If you're a man, you want to be in the US, not the UK, because your survival chances are 1.7x better than in the UK.

Canada was 2nd for breast cancer behind the US, 3rd for prostate cancer behind the US and Austria, 2nd to the US in colorectal cancer for women and 4th behind the US, France and Australia for colorectal cancer for men.

The CONCORD study was conducted by the US Centers for Disease Control (CDC), the British National Health Service (NHS) and the British medical journal Lancet.

That refutes your claim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
Canadians live longer. That is the final arbitrator.
No, it isn't.

Life-Expectancy is a function of Life-Style.

The Life-Style of Americans is less conducive to longevity, but that has nothing to do with healthcare.

Canadians are not obese, do not have gangs shooting people in LA, Baltimore, Chicago and elsewhere, do not have an "opioid-crisis" and do not have high suicide rates.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2019, 01:19 PM
 
5,414 posts, read 2,003,807 times
Reputation: 6863
Quote:
Originally Posted by engineman View Post
The private sector will always do a better job than government.

Read my post above yours. Ever since Big Insurance took over healthcare they have driven up costs far above the rate of inflation. I'm sorry if the facts don't fit your narrative...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2019, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
27,479 posts, read 17,613,967 times
Reputation: 15582
If anyone actually believes a taxpayer-funded system administered by the federal government will be less expensive than private insurance, I have a bridge to sell you. It's a really NICE bridge.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2019, 03:08 PM
 
12,842 posts, read 4,638,397 times
Reputation: 5213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
If anyone actually believes a taxpayer-funded system administered by the federal government will be less expensive than private insurance, I have a bridge to sell you. It's a really NICE bridge.
It makes no sense that a for-profit system would be cheaper. No sense. A for-profit system is geared towards price gouging desperate patients and an insurance system is an administrative mess. It has to be far more expensive than a tax-funded system and it is.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2019, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Midwest
31,346 posts, read 19,602,296 times
Reputation: 7846
Quote:
Originally Posted by engineman View Post
The private sector will always do a better job than government.

If you want socialism, move to Venezuela.
Or move to Somalia if you want all that capitalism has to offer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2019, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
12,351 posts, read 7,498,921 times
Reputation: 15950
Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
I don't get the objection some have to universal healthcare.

In Canada, after you get rid of all the anecdotal things about wait lines etc., the fact remains that Canada spends 1/3 less as a percentage of GDP than the USA with better outcome,
Below is an "anecdote" from one of those "lucky" Canadians:

Quote:
Well, I haven't had scoliosis surgery but my son has, does that count? If not go ahead and delete.

My son was about 12.5 when he was first diagnosed with scoliosis. His curve was already at about 48* and surgery seemed like the only option. Wait times here in BC for a consultation with a spine specialist is at least a year and if surgery is needed, then you're looking at about two years. So for a good 1.5 years we watched his spine go from 48* to about 110*-115* and he could no longer participate in PE at school and it hurt for him to just sit in the chairs at school and walking a few blocks caused him so much pain. It hurt for him to cough or sneeze and he said it felt as though a "hot knife was sticking in his back".

No luck with BC Children's hospital, so we contacted Shriners and he had his first surgery (posterior release) & halo traction application on March 22nd. 2011 and his posterior fusion from T4-L2 with four weeks of halo traction in between the surgeries. He is about seven months post op now and he says he feels great! He is also four inches taller from being stretched out. He says he has no pain, just tenderness, was off all meds after about a month and is attending high school full time with no issues.

Are we happy he had the surgery(s). Umm, YES!!
When your child is ten years old (as I was), and needs the spinal fusion before puberty kicks in, you tend to see things differently.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2019, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
2,160 posts, read 1,748,542 times
Reputation: 2617
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Canadians ... do not have an "opioid-crisis" ....
The government of Canada and Canadian public health authorities would disagree with you:

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-cana...ms-deaths.html

From the link:

Quote:
The opioid crisis continues to devastate communities and families across the country. It is affecting the health and lives of people from all walks of life, all age groups and all socio-economic backgrounds.
Emphasis added. If Canada has no opioid crisis, then somebody hasn't told them that they don't.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top