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View Poll Results: Would you rather pay $5000 more in private premiums than $2000 more in health care taxes?
Yes, paying more to the insurance companies ensure that I am free 27 29.67%
No, paying less into a Medicare-style system is the sensible thing to do 64 70.33%
Voters: 91. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-10-2019, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Barrington
45,773 posts, read 34,016,499 times
Reputation: 15276

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Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
1. INSURANCE is not care


2. all insurance is a scam


3. insurance is FOR large problems that come up....health INSURANCE was never intended to cover every sniffle you think you have

. the whole problem is insurance (both governmental and private)..

why should you EXPECT some entity (or someone else) to pay YOUR BILL

I can open up the yellow pages and look up ANY doctor and make an appointment...and be seen...but like any other service they expect to be paid


when your car needs a tube up, or an annual inspection (exam)..do you call your auto insurance to file a claim....nope

when your house needs a new washer, or a paint job or new windows......do you call your home owners insurance to file a claim....nope


the WHOLE problem is the entitlement mentality, they YOU..yes YOU..EXPECT some one else to pay you bill
Insurance has been around for 672 years.

Healthcare insurance evolves. Nearly 2 generations ago:

1973- Nixon signed legislation that mandated employers who provided healthcare insurance to employees to offer at least one HMO option. That action changed the intent of healthcare insurance.

Insurers reacted and the PPO networks were created to compete with HMOs.
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Old 06-10-2019, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Austin
29,546 posts, read 16,475,253 times
Reputation: 8087
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Simple question, is it better to pay more in private health care premiums, deductibles and co-pays than paying less than that in taxes?
I would prefer to pay less for private insurance rather than more than that in taxes.
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Old 06-10-2019, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Barrington
45,773 posts, read 34,016,499 times
Reputation: 15276
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
which is why health insurance...if base on what insurance is... the premiums should be based on the risk...and should be ala-carte


a driver with too many tickets or accidents will have difficulty getting insurance...and pay through the nose...because he/she is a risk..... health ins should be the same






personally I want ALL INSURANCE (government and private) ABOLISHED.... its my health, its my body, its the service I choose, its my bill...I don't want ANYONE paying my way, sorry but I have too much pride to beg
Insurance is nothing more than a transference of risk in exchange for a premium.

The premium grants the right to make claim for a benefit.

I have no issue if you choose to forgo healthcare insurance. Federal Law requires the ER to stabilize you, regardless of insurance or ability to pay. This does not mean they wonít bill you, especially if you are employed and/ or have assets.

Makes no diff to me if you choose to not insure your healthcare risks and self- pay.

It is reasonable to assume the 672 year history of insurance is not going away, no matter your preference.
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Old 06-10-2019, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Squirrel Tree
1,196 posts, read 259,805 times
Reputation: 481
I feel that drug smoking and venereal disease are driving up health care costs.
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Old 06-10-2019, 01:27 PM
 
66,437 posts, read 30,294,925 times
Reputation: 8660
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
All insurance, not just healthcare, mutualize risk.

The premiums paid by people without claims are used to pay other peopleís claims.

When you finance an auto or a home, your lender requires you to insure the risk of loss.

If you live in a designated flood plain, your lender will also require you to purchase federally underwritten flood insurance. Premiums are not nearly enough to cover claims of loss. The tax payers in Arizona end up subsidizing floods in Texas and Oklahoma.

You own a car outright, your state requires you to maintain some semblance of liability insurance.

If you have term life insurance, you donít get a refund if you donít die.
You all realize that the maximum FEMA flood insurance claim payout on an insured's home is $250,000, no? And, depending on risk zone, the annual premium for that $250,000 worth of insurance can be $7,000+/year.

https://www.fema.gov/news-release/20...vers-hurricane

The cost of the premium is most definitely based on the risk. And the insured are rarely made whole after a flood-based disaster damages/destroys their home given the very low maximum claim amount.
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Old 06-10-2019, 01:30 PM
 
Location: USA
17,619 posts, read 8,837,966 times
Reputation: 13154
Government can, and does increase their costs to you whenever they want. There is no market, nor competition to reign in their spending nor their taxes, fees, and surcharges. You are totally at their mercy. See what happens when you don't pay the IRS, or your property and real estate taxes. Guys with GUNS show up to remove you.
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Old 06-10-2019, 01:37 PM
 
66,437 posts, read 30,294,925 times
Reputation: 8660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
Government can, and does increase their costs to you whenever they want. There is no market, nor competition to reign in their spending nor their taxes, fees, and surcharges. You are totally at their mercy. See what happens when you don't pay the IRS, or your property and real estate taxes. Guys with GUNS show up to remove you.
Yep. Homes have been foreclosed on, taken from their owners, and sold at a tax auction for as little as an $8 outstanding balance on a real estate tax bill.

https://pacificlegal.org/michigan-su...-foreclosures/

There's absolutely NO way federal/state/local government should be reaching their tentacles into our lives any more than they already are.
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Old 06-10-2019, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Ohio
19,875 posts, read 14,221,081 times
Reputation: 16075
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Its a myth that single payer in America would be more than twice as expensive as the current absurdly expensive system.
It's not a myth.

Americans are abusive. They abuse everything. It's a cultural thing.

When I had to take my soldiers to sick-call, it was a freaking 90 minute drive to Landstuhl Army Regional Medical Center. There were so many military dependents there -- you know, civilians -- it took the better part of a day for my troops to get seen, even though military personnel are supposed to have priority over dependents.

Starting October 1986, there was a new policy: $10 co-pay for dependents.

Now when I took my troops down, there wasn't any civilian dependents there and my troops were in and out in no time flat.

Why? Because it wasn't "free" any more.

That's exactly what Bernie's system will be like.

You'll have 90 Million to 110 Million Americans abusing the system every which way but loose driving up costs astronomically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Its Wall Street who run our health care system.
No, wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
It makes no sense that a for-profit system would be cheaper. No sense.
That's because a) you don't understand business and b) you don't even understand how your system operates.

Repeat after me 1000x: It is the cost of medical care that determines the cost of health insurance.

Let us know when you can wrap your brain around that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
But, as I posted previously, the life expectancy of those over 65 still is higher in Canada than the USA. Explain that.
Culture, which is something you can't wrap your brain around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
So, you agree, Canada is better. Cool.
I don't agree, but I do notice you couldn't refute any of the facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ottomobeale View Post
Until you reign in big pharma, the AMA and big hospitals, ...
Pharmaceuticals are a drop in the bucket and the AMA is not your problem.

Your problem is your governments, the AHA -- not the AMA -- and your hospital monopolies.
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Old 06-10-2019, 03:15 PM
 
1,775 posts, read 988,600 times
Reputation: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
It's not a myth.

Americans are abusive. They abuse everything. It's a cultural thing.

When I had to take my soldiers to sick-call, it was a freaking 90 minute drive to Landstuhl Army Regional Medical Center. There were so many military dependents there -- you know, civilians -- it took the better part of a day for my troops to get seen, even though military personnel are supposed to have priority over dependents.

Starting October 1986, there was a new policy: $10 co-pay for dependents.

Now when I took my troops down, there wasn't any civilian dependents there and my troops were in and out in no time flat.

Why? Because it wasn't "free" any more.


That's exactly what Bernie's system will be like.

You'll have 90 Million to 110 Million Americans abusing the system every which way but loose driving up costs astronomically.



No, wrong.



That's because a) you don't understand business and b) you don't even understand how your system operates.

Repeat after me 1000x: It is the cost of medical care that determines the cost of health insurance.

Let us know when you can wrap your brain around that.



Culture, which is something you can't wrap your brain around.



I don't agree, but I do notice you couldn't refute any of the facts.



Pharmaceuticals are a drop in the bucket and the AMA is not your problem.

Your problem is your governments, the AHA -- not the AMA -- and your hospital monopolies.





Do you understand the difference between cheaper system overall and "free" system.
Nobody says that a better overall solution shouldn't have copays/deductibles. It should.
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Old 06-10-2019, 03:26 PM
 
23,912 posts, read 11,907,496 times
Reputation: 10108
Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
You entirely missed my point.

Unless YOU are a multi-millionaire, you're going to run out of money if a calamitous illness hits you or your family. Healthcare is a right, not an option like a sunroof on a vehicle.

What will YOU do when you run out of money, just wither away, suffer and die? Because under your scenario, that is your only option.
And why should I be responsible pay for some other persons misfortune?
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