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View Poll Results: Would you rather pay $5000 more in private premiums than $2000 more in health care taxes?
Yes, paying more to the insurance companies ensure that I am free 27 29.67%
No, paying less into a Medicare-style system is the sensible thing to do 64 70.33%
Voters: 91. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-12-2019, 03:32 PM
 
1,799 posts, read 996,725 times
Reputation: 885

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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
No point. My FEMA flood insurance policy, which costs me the most in premiums, $7,000/year, has never been needed. My home has been here for 35 years and has never flooded despite numerous direct hurricane hits. My homeowner's policy, which covers full replacement cost due to fire, etc., costs only $750/year.

And as CO2 seems to be of utmost concern to the anthropogenic climate change nutters, why aren't they addressing the issue of ocean floor geologic activity that releases far more CO2 into the atmosphere than any other source?

Exactly, you have no point. I said that warmer ocean temperatures lead to stronger hurricanes. It is a simple statement, and I did not discuss the source of the warming.



And while I have no intention to comment on the study you posted, however from your own source:


"In many cases, the carbon reservoirs are bottled up by their hydrate caps. But those covers are sensitive to temperature changes. As oceans warm, the caps can melt, a development the paper warns would lead to a double wallop for climate change -- a new source of geologic carbon in addition to the humanmade greenhouse gases.
Oceans absorb nearly all the excess energy from the Earth's atmosphere, and as a result they have been warming rapidly in recent decades. Over the past quarter-century, Earth's oceans have retained 60 percent more heat each year than scientists previously had thought, other studies have shown. Throughout the marine water column, ocean heat has increased for the last 50 years. The federal government's Climate Science Special Report projected a global increase in average sea surface temperatures of up to 5 degrees Fahrenheit by the end of the century, given current emissions rates. Temperature gains of that magnitude throughout the ocean could eventually destabilize the geologic hydrate reservoirs, Stott said."


Lastly, about your flood policy. Since you seem to be feeling lucky, drop it then. Or move. Or find a private company to cover you, my guess is (if you find any) they'll charge you twice as much.



My homeowner's policy is much more, and the house was never on fire. Go figure
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,704 posts, read 8,782,287 times
Reputation: 7319
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncguy50 View Post
How about I don't want government bean counters to decide my healthcare choices. To them, I'm citizen #276,138,473. If you think the government doesn't have a "maximum out of pocket" value assigned to your life, you're in for a big surprise.
Not how it works in Canada.

The government does not get involved between a doctor and the patient. If the doctor says something is medically needed, and it is covered, then it's covered. No one coming back and saying, sorry the government has refused your claim.

There is no financial limit to your care either. None.

Again, if the doctor says it's needed, then you get it.

My mother has been used as an example and I'm pretty sure if there was a limit, we would know it by now, after her brain tumour and follow ups, her kidney cancer, her breast cancer in both breasts, here cataract surgeries, her two hip replacements, and her affordable home care that she had until she went into a home.

So far...not one bill, not one refusal for care, not one deductible...NADA.
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:22 PM
 
4,349 posts, read 892,282 times
Reputation: 2423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
Not how it works in Canada.

The government does not get involved between a doctor and the patient. If the doctor says something is medically needed, and it is covered, then it's covered. No one coming back and saying, sorry the government has refused your claim.

There is no financial limit to your care either. None.

Again, if the doctor says it's needed, then you get it.

My mother has been used as an example and I'm pretty sure if there was a limit, we would know it by now, after her brain tumour and follow ups, her kidney cancer, her breast cancer in both breasts, here cataract surgeries, her two hip replacements, and her affordable home care that she had until she went into a home.

So far...not one bill, not one refusal for care, not one deductible...NADA.
Exactly, yet so many in the USA are opposed to universal healthcare because of the misinformation campaign spread by the health care industry. They have no idea how well it actually works for us.
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,704 posts, read 8,782,287 times
Reputation: 7319
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
Below is an "anecdote" from one of those "lucky" Canadians:



When your child is ten years old (as I was), and needs the spinal fusion before puberty kicks in, you tend to see things differently.
"Well, I haven't had scoliosis surgery but my son has, does that count? If not go ahead and delete.

My son was about 12.5 when he was first diagnosed with scoliosis. His curve was already at about 48* and surgery seemed like the only option. Wait times here in BC for a consultation with a spine specialist is at least a year and if surgery is needed, then you're looking at about two years. So for a good 1.5 years we watched his spine go from 48* to about 110*-115* and he could no longer participate in PE at school and it hurt for him to just sit in the chairs at school and walking a few blocks caused him so much pain. It hurt for him to cough or sneeze and he said it felt as though a "hot knife was sticking in his back".

No luck with BC Children's hospital, so we contacted Shriners and he had his first surgery (posterior release) & halo traction application on March 22nd. 2011 and his posterior fusion from T4-L2 with four weeks of halo traction in between the surgeries. He is about seven months post op now and he says he feels great! He is also four inches taller from being stretched out. He says he has no pain, just tenderness, was off all meds after about a month and is attending high school full time with no issues.

Are we happy he had the surgery(s). Umm, YES!!"


This story is extremely suspect or at the very least missing some pertinent information.

The most glaring bit is the fact that patients in BC do not go and try and see if they can get into a hospital.
You must be admitted by a physician or specialist. So stating, " no luck with BC Children's Hospital " makes no sense.

The second most glaring bit, is the fact that there is NO Shriners hospital in Vancouver, or even BC. In all of Canada there is one in Montreal, but that's 4,500 kilometres, or 2,800 miles away. The reason for the lack of them is most likely due to the fact that people are covered and don't need the charity.
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,704 posts, read 8,782,287 times
Reputation: 7319
Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
Nailed it, except for the part that hospitals are private... they are not, with a few exceptions (Cambie center in B.C.).
Every province is different.

In BC we have hospitals, clinics and labs that are private. The hospitals are non-profit, like St Paul's are owned and run by Providence Health Care. They must, and do, provide care under the Canada Health Act and BC healthcare, meaning they can not, nor do they, charge patients who are covered by our provincial plan. Same with clinics. They can not charge patients or offer a two tiered system.

The Cambie Clinic in Vancouver is in court because of this.
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:46 PM
 
18,333 posts, read 10,407,207 times
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Some things you just have to shake your head and wonder at.

https://www.vox.com/2019/1/23/181942...acare-medicaid

https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...-health-divide
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:54 PM
 
Location: Midwest
31,431 posts, read 19,664,020 times
Reputation: 7903
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
Other countries, that have a twenty-first century healthcare system, must look at ours and wonder when the US became a third world country!
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,704 posts, read 8,782,287 times
Reputation: 7319

None of those are national.

First link isn't about cuts, it's piece warning about one provinces premier ( Con )pushing to privatize certain aspects of the system. Besides running afoul of the Canada Health Act, Canadians don't want it. The article is saying as much.


Second Link. Looks like an extreme left wing piece and doesn't seem to reflect reality. Alarmist at best.

Third Link. Again, not about cuts, but about a Conservative premier in Alberta who people are concerned he may try to privatize more. Again, it is a piece AGAINST privatization. It's talking about things that haven't happened. Did you read, or just the headline?

Fourth Link. I'm really thinking you have just read the headlines and not the article. AGAIN it isn't a piece against UHC. Every province is different, and in Quebec they obviously do things differently than in BC where private clinics etc exist, but MUST follow the Canada Health Act..meaning they can't charge Canadians or try and run a two tiered system, The article even states in the SECOND paragraph " Seventy per cent of respondents said they welcomed more access to medical services offered by private companies ó as long as they donít have to pay out of pocket." Like in BC.

Fifth Link ( this is fun ) The Cambie Clinic is in court for breaking the law on Canada's Health Act. They haven't won. Dr. Day is not a well like personage in Vancouver. He is seen as a doctor motivated by greed.

Sixth Link. It won't open for me, but just by the URL I can tell it's a business magazine. I don't think anyone would be shocked at what business for profit people want in healthcare.

Seventh Link. Again, not national. The article is more of a dispute on whether it was a cut or an increase because of efficiencies made, but it does showcase how healthcare in Canada is closely watched, that things like this make news..because Canadians are watching and won't put up with politicians who may harm the system.

Eighth Link. Propaganda piece. Anything coming out of the Fraser Institute is right wing propaganda. They are laughed at here in BC. They are SO obvious in their slant, that facts are twisted and their methods debunked. They are partially funded by your Koch Bros, that says something. Nothing to see here.

Ninth Link. A labour dispute in Ontario only. Certain doctors making points for a better contract. They settled.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...ment-1.5025350
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Nebraska
3,258 posts, read 1,639,650 times
Reputation: 2897
Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
Exactly, yet so many in the USA are opposed to universal healthcare because of the misinformation campaign spread by the health care industry. They have no idea how well it actually works for us.
If universal healthcare with payroll deduction was operated like it was in some other countries then there would be more support for it, even if the taxes were much higher.

If it's like a majority of the programs that are unveiled by federal government it would be a very costly fiasco, wait times would skyrocket, the system would collapse because there would be no moral hazard and people would try to utilize far more resources while the federal government would likely shrink the supply. It would be an massive mess.

I venture to guess that a Medicare for All rollout would be a bigger fiasco then the long waits, long shortages and overwhelmed system that they have in the UK or Canada.

The issue is with the federal government here in the United States is that won't operate the programs as well as France, Germany or Norway.

Canada has had their major issues with very long wait times and shortage of providers.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/docto...ital-1.5113552

Americans are also in extremely bad health overall compared to many other countries.
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:02 PM
 
4,349 posts, read 892,282 times
Reputation: 2423
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovecrowds View Post
If universal healthcare with payroll deduction was operated like it was in some other countries then there would be more support for it, even if the taxes were much higher.

If it's like a majority of the programs that are unveiled by federal government it would be a very costly fiasco, wait times would skyrocket, the system would collapse because there would be no moral hazard and people would try to utilize far more resources while the federal government would likely shrink the supply. It would be an massive mess.

I venture to guess that a Medicare for All rollout would be a bigger fiasco then the long waits, long shortages and overwhelmed system that they have in the UK or Canada.

The issue is with the federal government here in the United States is that won't operate the programs as well as France, Germany or Norway.

Canada has had their major issues with very long wait times and shortage of providers.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/docto...ital-1.5113552

Americans are also in extremely bad health overall compared to many other countries.
What long waits? When my family needed it, care was there as soon as needed. Every single time.

I just got back from the USA, where I spent 6 months as a snowbird. I've had a persistent cough and sinus issue for about 5 weeks. Called my doctor on Monday, was in first thing Tuesday morning, went and got x-rays and blood work, he had it this morning, he called me, and we have a treatment plan. Oh, and I live in a very, very remote area, 30 miles from the nearest grocery store.

Try doing that in the USA. My American girlfriend, who works for one of the largest health insurance companies, was transferred. She could not find an in network primary care physician, and had to see a nurse practitioner. She heads the team that does the approvals for those in network physicians. If she can't get one, what does an ordinary person have a chance of that?

Even with her gold plated plan, she still has a deductible and copays, plus has to pay premiums. Me?

I pay no premiums, no deductible, no copay except for prescriptions, and that is maxed at $25, and cannot be excluded because of pre-existing conditions.

Oh, and as far as getting a new doctor when I moved to this remote village? Took me exactly 20 minutes.

I know both systems probably better than most. I'll stick with the Canadian one, thank you very much.

Canada spends 1/3 less of its GDP than the USA, and Canadians live longer. That is proof of which system just works.
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