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View Poll Results: Would you rather pay $5000 more in private premiums than $2000 more in health care taxes?
Yes, paying more to the insurance companies ensure that I am free 27 29.67%
No, paying less into a Medicare-style system is the sensible thing to do 64 70.33%
Voters: 91. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-13-2019, 01:26 AM
 
1,092 posts, read 204,561 times
Reputation: 756

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Correct me if I am wrong..

So, in Canada.. a PRIVATE hospital or Doctor can accept a pasient.. treat that pasient with the care they need... send a bill to the Government for exactly that treatment... and get paid back for what they have provided that patient?

And the Canadian Governement has actually done its work and calculated what EACH AND EVERY Treatment/consultation costs.. and pays the PRIVATE Hospital or Doctor for what he has actually provided?


And actually negotiated with Pharmaceutical companies for their drugs.. and gotten better deals?


(And punish those Doctors or Hospitals that lies or tries to add more "work", to earn more?)



Sound like magic..

I understand why Republicans dont want a system that works..
Its not profitable for their donors.



.
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Old 06-13-2019, 01:42 AM
 
4,343 posts, read 890,513 times
Reputation: 2419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northman83 View Post
Correct me if I am wrong..

So, in Canada.. a PRIVATE hospital or Doctor can accept a pasient.. treat that pasient with the care they need... send a bill to the Government for exactly that treatment... and get paid back for what they have provided that patient?

And the Canadian Governement has actually done its work and calculated what EACH AND EVERY Treatment/consultation costs.. and pays the PRIVATE Hospital or Doctor for what he has actually provided?
The province run the healthcare systems, so there is some variance. As example, wart removal may be covered in one province, but not in another. The exceptions are of that minor nature.

First of all there are very, very few private hospitals in Canada, although some provinces have allowed some. Most are run by the health service in the province they are located in.

But yes, the doctor determines what is needed, and just like in the US, there is a code for each procedure. He sends a bill to the government and gets paid. That's how it works.


Quote:
And actually negotiated with Pharmaceutical companies for their drugs.. and gotten better deals?
It is a known fact that drugs are a fraction of the cost that they are in the USA. Drugs are not covered by regular universal healthcare, but most people buy extra insurance for that, and for seniors most provinces cover with a small co-pay. As example, I pay a maximum of $25 for my insulin, and I can get triple the monthly amount for that. So, rather than buying on pack at a time, I buy three, and still the same co-pay.

If you need drugs in a hospital, I believe all provinces fully cover those costs. They certainly do in the ones I know of. It is illegal for hospitals or doctors to extra-bill any amount, even $5.00.

Quote:
(And punish those Doctors or Hospitals that lies or tries to add more "work", to earn more?)
Yes, audits are performed on those doctors who appear to have high billings or toss in extra procedures regularly. Very few actually do so, as opposed to the USA.
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Old 06-13-2019, 07:28 AM
 
66,613 posts, read 30,402,539 times
Reputation: 8697
Quote:
Originally Posted by serger View Post
Exactly, you have no point. I said that warmer ocean temperatures lead to stronger hurricanes. It is a simple statement, and I did not discuss the source of the warming.
I did. AND I discussed the primary source of the additional CO2 in the earth's atmosphere which has occurred throught earth's 4+ billion year history. Deal with it.

Quote:
And while I have no intention to comment on the study you posted, however from your own source:

"In many cases, the carbon reservoirs are bottled up by their hydrate caps. But those covers are sensitive to temperature changes. As oceans warm, the caps can melt, a development the paper warns would lead to a double wallop for climate change -- a new source of geologic carbon in addition to the humanmade greenhouse gases.
Oceans absorb nearly all the excess energy from the Earth's atmosphere, and as a result they have been warming rapidly in recent decades. Over the past quarter-century, Earth's oceans have retained 60 percent more heat each year than scientists previously had thought, other studies have shown. Throughout the marine water column, ocean heat has increased for the last 50 years. The federal government's Climate Science Special Report projected a global increase in average sea surface temperatures of up to 5 degrees Fahrenheit by the end of the century, given current emissions rates. Temperature gains of that magnitude throughout the ocean could eventually destabilize the geologic hydrate reservoirs, Stott said."
Silly editorial comment in an article that otherwise presents scientific data. Atmospheric temperatures are not what's causing the ocean floor to heat up and release CO2 reservoirs. That's caused by geologic activity such as hydrothermal vents, ocean floor volcanoes, etc. It's not anthropogenic. It's normal geologic activity which has occurred for 4+ billion years.
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Old 06-13-2019, 07:36 AM
 
Location: 15 months till retirement and I can leave the hell hole of New Yakistan
25,366 posts, read 14,074,572 times
Reputation: 6526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
Not how it works in Canada.

The government does not get involved between a doctor and the patient. If the doctor says something is medically needed, and it is covered, then it's covered. No one coming back and saying, sorry the government has refused your claim.

There is no financial limit to your care either. None.

Again, if the doctor says it's needed, then you get it.

My mother has been used as an example and I'm pretty sure if there was a limit, we would know it by now, after her brain tumour and follow ups, her kidney cancer, her breast cancer in both breasts, here cataract surgeries, her two hip replacements, and her affordable home care that she had until she went into a home.

So far...not one bill, not one refusal for care, not one deductible...NADA.
and that is NOT how our(USA) government works


medicare... many, many denials of service...doesn't matter what your doctor and you say... its up to the government on what they cover


our government (on everything it touches) wants to control every aspect of your life....... and that s the number one reason behind cost, of why a singlepayer/NHC/UHC wont work here
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Old 06-13-2019, 07:42 AM
 
Location: 15 months till retirement and I can leave the hell hole of New Yakistan
25,366 posts, read 14,074,572 times
Reputation: 6526
Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
What long waits? When my family needed it, care was there as soon as needed. Every single time.

I just got back from the USA, where I spent 6 months as a snowbird. I've had a persistent cough and sinus issue for about 5 weeks. Called my doctor on Monday, was in first thing Tuesday morning, went and got x-rays and blood work, he had it this morning, he called me, and we have a treatment plan. Oh, and I live in a very, very remote area, 30 miles from the nearest grocery store.

Try doing that in the USA. My American girlfriend, who works for one of the largest health insurance companies, was transferred. She could not find an in network primary care physician, and had to see a nurse practitioner. She heads the team that does the approvals for those in network physicians. If she can't get one, what does an ordinary person have a chance of that?

Even with her gold plated plan, she still has a deductible and copays, plus has to pay premiums. Me?

I pay no premiums, no deductible, no copay except for prescriptions, and that is maxed at $25, and cannot be excluded because of pre-existing conditions.

Oh, and as far as getting a new doctor when I moved to this remote village? Took me exactly 20 minutes.

I know both systems probably better than most. I'll stick with the Canadian one, thank you very much.

Canada spends 1/3 less of its GDP than the USA, and Canadians live longer. That is proof of which system just works.
and Canadians have a different type of government... our government is like a boss standing over you saying time is money...a micro-manager


our government (especially depts. like the FDA) is the problem
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Old 06-13-2019, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,703 posts, read 8,778,861 times
Reputation: 7319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northman83 View Post
Correct me if I am wrong..

So, in Canada.. a PRIVATE hospital or Doctor can accept a pasient.. treat that pasient with the care they need... send a bill to the Government for exactly that treatment... and get paid back for what they have provided that patient?

And the Canadian Governement has actually done its work and calculated what EACH AND EVERY Treatment/consultation costs.. and pays the PRIVATE Hospital or Doctor for what he has actually provided?


And actually negotiated with Pharmaceutical companies for their drugs.. and gotten better deals?


(And punish those Doctors or Hospitals that lies or tries to add more "work", to earn more?)



Sound like magic..

I understand why Republicans dont want a system that works..
Its not profitable for their donors.



.
Let's start at the beginning.

In Canada there is the Canada Health Act.

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-6/

This sets up the framework that provinces and territories must follow to receive transfer payments for healthcare.

Each province runs their own healthcare system. There are slight differences between provinces in what may be covered, but it's minor things like plaster or plastic casts.

In regards to private hospitals, clinics etc. Again every province is different. Here in BC most hospitals are non-profit run by organizations. Like St Paul's here in Vancouver, run and owned by Providence Healthcare, but who have partnered with Coastal Health. Coastal Health is the government healthcare organization. BC is broken up into different health region authorities.

Clinics and labs can be private in BC. Most are.

Doctors etc are not government employees. They can set up their own practice, or join one of the many clinics.

What all the above have in common is ONE insurer. The government of BC. Makes for a simple streamlined billing system. Remember each province has their own.

To answer your question about the government figuring out costs, the answer is yes. Just like any insurer they have a billing schedule. This is why they save on overhead. When dealing mostly with one insurer, with no variance in coverage you have much less paperwork and back and forth.

This is BC's.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/h...yment-schedule

As for pharmaceuticals, again yes. The Canadian government on behalf of the Canadian people buy in large quantities and bargain good prices. Still not as cheap as it could be for some, however most provinces would have a Pharmacare type program to assist in paying for the poor and disadvantage. Not perfect however. That is why a national pharmacare program gets a lot of traction. Governments have promised it to us over the years, but so far it hasn't appeared. It's in the news again.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pha...port-1.5171517
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Old 06-13-2019, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,703 posts, read 8,778,861 times
Reputation: 7319
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
and that is NOT how our(USA) government works


medicare... many, many denials of service...doesn't matter what your doctor and you say... its up to the government on what they cover


our government (on everything it touches) wants to control every aspect of your life....... and that s the number one reason behind cost, of why a singlepayer/NHC/UHC wont work here
This is the thing, you guys know what you don't like about your Medicare, and what you do like.

When the time comes for the US to build it's own version of UHC, make it known that you don't want just an extension of Medicare.

It doesn't have to stay the same.
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Old 06-13-2019, 03:00 PM
 
Location: 15 months till retirement and I can leave the hell hole of New Yakistan
25,366 posts, read 14,074,572 times
Reputation: 6526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
This is the thing, you guys know what you don't like about your Medicare, and what you do like.

When the time comes for the US to build it's own version of UHC, make it known that you don't want just an extension of Medicare.

It doesn't have to stay the same.
but the powers that be...don't want to lose control


doesn't matter which party..that want control, control of everything
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Old 06-13-2019, 03:54 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 27 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,034 posts, read 102,707,476 times
Reputation: 33083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
This is the thing, you guys know what you don't like about your Medicare, and what you do like.

When the time comes for the US to build it's own version of UHC, make it known that you don't want just an extension of Medicare.

It doesn't have to stay the same.
Actually, most people on Medicare like it. I don't know if you remember the Tea Party protests after Obama was elected, but there were people carrying signs saying "Keep your government hands off my Medicare"! Now, obviously those people were a little, er, confused, but I have since become a Medicare recipient, as has my husband, and we're for the most part satisfied. We do have supplemental insurance and prescription drug coverage insurance as well. My husband has been very sick with leukemia, was in the hospital for 7 weeks this fall and the cost to us was minimal. I don't even remember how much now, that's how little.

Medicare has its quirks. It was set up at a time when most married women did not work outside the home. But it could be fixed, and I think you have the right idea above!
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Old 06-13-2019, 04:33 PM
 
6,670 posts, read 1,385,283 times
Reputation: 16751
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Simple question, is it better to pay more in private health care premiums, deductibles and co-pays than paying less than that in taxes?
That depends on whether it is for the EXACT same care, choices and prescriptions, and paying the EXACT same amount out-of-pocket. If that is the case, it is a no-brainer, but if not, it would depend on what the differences were.
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