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Old 06-09-2019, 09:47 AM
 
1,182 posts, read 273,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Where?

Defending Cuba's healthcare and the Soviet metro system hardly makes him communist.
Not to mention his honeymoon in the USSR. His organizing for a communist front group. He defended communist regimes in Latin America. It's a simple Google search. He's a communist just like you.
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Old 06-09-2019, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,515 posts, read 2,610,220 times
Reputation: 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by G Grasshopper View Post
The US now has a blend of capitalism and socialism. Some of the socialist programs have been policy for years (Medicare, Social Security, public schools, public libraries, etc.) and are some of the most beloved (and depended upon) institutions in the country. Democratic socialists just want to push that balance a little further to the left. "Berniecrats" don't want to "get rid of capitalism." They want some of the currently capitalist systems (like healthcare) to have an OPTION to be more socialist.

The word "Socialist" seems to send conservatives, Trumpists, and most Republicans into seizures, but it is not a something to fear. It is a tool with which to make the country work for more people.

By the way, I don't consider myself to be a Social Democrat, but I do understand where they are coming from.
The Labor party in Britain before Blair was far more socialist than anything in American political culture. They wanted to promote worker ownership and democratic councils.

Welfare itself is not really socialism, and the liberal mantra for tax and spend is not socialist. The only thing healthcare related that can be seen as socialist is the fact that private insurance companies and the pharmaceutical companies can not set prices for drugs and treatments at rates they see most 'efficient'. And a public option would not solve any of these problems as the overhead and bureaucracy that doctors face is still there.

Either way Americans before the 70s all saw large corporations as public utilities that required powerful unions. Most Americans don't think like that anymore.

Now it is moderate to think of corporations as entities that 'earned their own money'. If you told someone in the 50s that GM executives and shareholders built the company themselves and own it themselves, you would have been laughed at. Now libertarians and Neo-liberals have convinced everyone speculators and financial holders are hard working capitalists.

Further that is why anti-trust laws were used constantly to keep smaller businesses in tact. It may have been less efficient, but it was incredibly popular.

If you had real socialism and anti-monopoly politics on the left rather than tax and spend people would have an option on something to vote for.

Sadly the majority of democrats want to keep policy discussion to Clinton/Obama era liberal polices and not touch them so Bernie must be silenced.
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Old 06-09-2019, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,172 posts, read 2,975,968 times
Reputation: 9463
Bernie is delusional and should have retired decades ago.
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Old 06-09-2019, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,515 posts, read 2,610,220 times
Reputation: 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncguy50 View Post
Not to mention his honeymoon in the USSR. His organizing for a communist front group. He defended communist regimes in Latin America. It's a simple Google search. He's a communist just like you.
His honeymoon was a sister city program with the Soviet Union, he like any diplomat wanted to promote political relationships (which is the point of the sister city program).

He defended Salvador Allende from being overthrown (not a communist by the way).

He supported the Sandinistas in the 80s like any sane person should. Why?

Because firstly back then they were an alliance of social democrats, liberals, socialists, etc. not one ideology opposed to Somoza. And Somoza was a terrible dictator who was abandoned by the entire global community including the United States BEFORE the Sandinistas took over.

Now in the early 80s the Reagan administration was running a terror program across central America slaughtering indigenous people, villagers, and urban residents.

Most of the crimes were committed by us backed regimes in Honduras, El Salvador, and Guatemala. Nicaragua was the exception as their government wasn't controlled by the United States.

Therefore the military in Nicaragua was the only military in central America defending its people rather than slaughtering them.

If you were against genocide, you would support the government since they were the only source of protection against the Contras (a terror organization that burned schools, slaughter babies, and assassinated politicians).

Sadly being against genocide is a controversial opinion among Americans.
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Old 06-09-2019, 01:12 PM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
29,824 posts, read 16,517,925 times
Reputation: 22406
In addition to an age problem (same w/Biden) - Bernie also has a branding problem. I wish he would have self-identified as anything but a democratic socialist early on.

Republicans have been screaming SOCIALIST for 40 years - against any candidate they don't like. And Bernie made it easy.

It's too late, though, to turn back now.
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Old 06-09-2019, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,515 posts, read 2,610,220 times
Reputation: 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
In addition to an age problem (same w/Biden) - Bernie also has a branding problem. I wish he would have self-identified as anything but a democratic socialist early on.

Republicans have been screaming SOCIALIST for 40 years - against any candidate they don't like. And Bernie made it easy.

It's too late, though, to turn back now.
I think he is though, we will find out.

Branding/Marketing is just a game used by politicians to mislead voters. Republicans tell bold face lies that Obama was a socialist or Clinton (Bill Clinton!) was pushing socialist healthcare. All lies.

Bernie is different from other democrats so his self branding does help liberal democrats differentiate themselves.

Anyways policies like greater worker control and nationalized/collectivized electric lines could be popular if they were argued to people as a good.

We don't get to here these arguments, so this should be good for the American people. They get to hear an alternative to tax and spend liberals and deregulation conservatives.
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