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Old 06-09-2019, 07:24 AM
 
954 posts, read 374,694 times
Reputation: 1756

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Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy View Post
abortion is a death penalty imposed on those who can't protect themselves.
The death penalty is a death penalty imposed on people who are literally strapped down. What’s your point?

 
Old 06-09-2019, 07:38 AM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
14,731 posts, read 10,624,988 times
Reputation: 19904
Quote:
Originally Posted by trlhiker View Post
BS on the bolded. The left does not demand abortion up until birth. Never have, never will. The right needs to give it up. Abortion is the law of the land. And here I thought the Right was all about the law of the land, I guess not.
Did you miss these?

LIS > Bill Tracking > HB2491: Abortion; eliminate certain requirements. > 2019 session

Virginia late-term abortion bill labelled 'infanticide'

https://legislation.nysenate.gov/pdf...ive Health Act
For the New York one, which passed, the women may choose to have an abortion prior to 24 weeks without giving any reason, which is not the issue for most people. It’s that after 24 weeks, and until the actual birth, they can have an abortion if there is an “absence of fetal viability” or if “necessary to protect the patient’s life or health.” The abscence of viability is not controversial with most people, nor should it be. It’s the limitless range of the other part that is the issue. Yes, that determination must be made by a “health care practitioner licensed, certified, or authorized” under state law, “acting within his or her lawful scope of practice.” However, the way the law is written that health care provider could be a Planned Parenthood mental health counselor who deems the pregnancy needs to end at 39 1/2 weeks to protect the mother’s health since the pregnancy or the thought of having a baby is making her “depressed” or “anxious” now that her boyfriend is with another woman. Yes, that is an extreme example, but nonetheless true.

As to which side should cede, they both should meet in the middle. Up to 20-24 weeks on demand, afterwards only in cases where the infant is not viable or for the protection of the physical life of mother, with early birth being the first option considered whenever possible.
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When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.Moderator - Arkansas & subforums, Asia, Kentucky & subforums, Military Life, and P&OC
 
Old 06-09-2019, 02:32 PM
 
8,897 posts, read 2,762,428 times
Reputation: 5442
Quote:
Originally Posted by bingo3000 View Post
Who should cede the abortion issue once and for all, and end this American discussion?

Roe vs. Wade is the law of the land, but pro-lifers and conservative Christians, etc. are antiabortion.

Who cedes this once and for all?
I don't think this discussion will end once and for all. Ever.
 
Old 06-09-2019, 02:49 PM
 
13,819 posts, read 14,653,063 times
Reputation: 11509
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
Do prochoicers want to reduce the number of abortions performed?

Or should every abortion be celebrated as a woman's right, and more abortions = more celebration of rights?
People are talking more about abortions to remove the stigma, not to celebrate it.
 
Old 06-09-2019, 02:49 PM
 
6,635 posts, read 4,598,276 times
Reputation: 13350
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
Do prochoicers want to reduce the number of abortions performed?

Or should every abortion be celebrated as a woman's right, and more abortions = more celebration of rights?
Pro choice does not mean celebrating abortion. Here’s what it does mean:

If a woman chooses to continue a pregnancy and parent the child, I support her right to do so.

If a woman chooses to continue a pregnancy and put the child up for adoption, I support her right to do so.

If a woman chooses to end a pregnancy via abortion, I support her right to do so.
 
Old 06-09-2019, 03:08 PM
 
13,819 posts, read 14,653,063 times
Reputation: 11509
Quote:
Originally Posted by USMC1984 View Post
REALLY?





This is protest. It is meant to shock. Is it classy? No. However it is effective. Protest is to make you think, shake you up. Bring attention.

Too much shame built into a woman’s personal, sexual and reproductive life. So excuse us if some of us are in your face types. What we do, how we conduct ourselves is our business, just as a man does. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. This is just the start if this issue becomes even more serious than it already is. Pink cat hats and all Go for it girls.

Edited to add. If abortion is brought up and a woman talks about her experience she is shamed for it by some. It shouldn’t be shameful. I think it’s mostly a private matter and the majority of women don’t talk about it at all. She shouldn’t have to do that either.
 
Old 06-09-2019, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,411 posts, read 28,264,585 times
Reputation: 28995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
Did you miss these?

LIS > Bill Tracking > HB2491: Abortion; eliminate certain requirements. > 2019 session

Virginia late-term abortion bill labelled 'infanticide'

https://legislation.nysenate.gov/pdf...ive Health Act
For the New York one, which passed, the women may choose to have an abortion prior to 24 weeks without giving any reason, which is not the issue for most people. It’s that after 24 weeks, and until the actual birth, they can have an abortion if there is an “absence of fetal viability” or if “necessary to protect the patient’s life or health.” The abscence of viability is not controversial with most people, nor should it be. It’s the limitless range of the other part that is the issue. Yes, that determination must be made by a “health care practitioner licensed, certified, or authorized” under state law, “acting within his or her lawful scope of practice.” However, the way the law is written that health care provider could be a Planned Parenthood mental health counselor who deems the pregnancy needs to end at 39 1/2 weeks to protect the mother’s health since the pregnancy or the thought of having a baby is making her “depressed” or “anxious” now that her boyfriend is with another woman. Yes, that is an extreme example, but nonetheless true.

As to which side should cede, they both should meet in the middle. Up to 20-24 weeks on demand, afterwards only in cases where the infant is not viable or for the protection of the physical life of mother, with early birth being the first option considered whenever possible.
No one is going to be able to find a provider who will abort a pregnancy at 39 1/2 weeks because the mother is “depressed” or “anxious”. If there is any maternal need for delivery in the third trimester every attempt will be made to save the baby.

It has always been and always will be "early birth being the first option considered".

All the NY law does is protect the obstetrician from being accused of doing an illegal abortion if for some reason - immaturity in the early third trimester or fetal damage from the mother's illness - the fetus does not survive.
 
Old 06-09-2019, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
23,294 posts, read 11,535,980 times
Reputation: 4315
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayanne View Post
I have a FB friend who actually just posted her support of abortion for any reason throughout the entire pregnancy, so yes, such extremes do exist. I am pro-choice but that is far too extreme for me.
Do extremes exist, sure, the problem with this argument is the Democratic Party has never supported such extremes

I have seen morons argue in support of slavery who vote republican, but i would never argue that even most racist or Republicans thought slavery was ok.

sometimes wakejobs are just wackjobs. yes, being a wackjob doesnt mean you arent also still a (D) or (R), but trying to attribute that to the whole( and that is the context to which you responded) is just wrong.
 
Old 06-09-2019, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
9,390 posts, read 7,191,039 times
Reputation: 8120
Quote:
Originally Posted by texan2yankee View Post
compromise is the key to ending the debate on abortion.

Most americans support abortion on demand up to the end of the first trimester, but not after that.

the right demands no abortion at all and the left demands abortion up until the fetus passes through the birth canal. both positions are extreme and NOT popular with the majority of americans.
I would characterize it only slightly differently... "support abortion by adult women that can pay for it themselves ...". I don't think most of us are ready to allow teenagers to get abortions without parental consent, and I know by the continued agreement with the Hyde Amendment we expect people to use their own money. But I could be wrong.

I also wouldn't say "the right" and the "left" rather "the extreme right" and "extreme left".

Though by saying so, I'd add that no law has yet been passed that is "no abortion at all", but I have seen "abortion at full term, including after delivery" get passed by NY.
 
Old 06-09-2019, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
9,390 posts, read 7,191,039 times
Reputation: 8120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
Neither, make it a state issue subject to the democratic process, rather than judicial fiat. A minority of states will outlaw abortion, and an even smaller minority of the population will live in a state that outlaws abortion. Many states will place restrictions on abortion somewhere between complete legality and complete illegality, which is the most democratic outcome.

With such a controversial issue, there will be no ultimate victory and defeat. Compromise is the best way, and thankfully our system has a great way to accomplish this.
well said
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