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How many of you pontificating here about southern Democratic party ever went a Democratic state convention? Or had family and friends active in the party?
I did as a child and as a high school student and as an adult.
The democratic party in Texas was always 2 factions. The conservative, establishment and the liberal progressives.
As I have said before, back in the 50's they had to put barbed wire around the podium to keep people from storming it.
As a Goldwater supporter in San Antonio, I personally inspected every dwelling that had a registered voter in my precinct. Eight vacant lots produced 16 voters. I told my leader. The response was who will we complain to? The county is run by Johnson Democrats.
At the time, LBJ ranch had a clause in the deed that it could not be sold to blacks or jews. That was common at the time. I had a house in Webster Groves Mo with the same clause. The civil rights act voided the clause.
Every single person I knew as a conservative Democrat switched parties after the civil rights act.
This is always a silly topic.
Trump supporters accept up is down and black is white, when it suits them. Rewriting history is now a popular pastime.
The antebellum Democrat party of slavery was decisively defeated in the Civil War, never to rise again.
After that, there were two Democrat parties, a northern version and a rump southern version. The southern version was a continuation of the Jefferson-Jackson party, while the northern version was something entirely new: the party of people who had immigrated to the US after independence.
From 1860 to 1928, Democrats only won 4 presidential elections, with 2 apiece going to Grover Cleveland and Woodrow Wilson.
Cleveland was a northern Democrat from Buffalo who was squeaky clean during a venal time in American politics. Largely a protest vote against the Gilded Age corruption.
Wilson is more interesting. He was a dyed-in-the-wool racist southern Democrat who also happened to be highly educated, the president of Princeton who brought graduate school to American shores. He was a bridge between the two Democrat parties, a racist and a reformer, whose political advisor was a northern Irishman named Tumulty.
Wilson was only elected because TR split the Republican vote. He was the last of the old southern Democrat party. The old Democrats would try again with progressive technocrats in James Cox and John Davis, who both lost spectacularly.
Then the new Democratic party took control, and nominated northern Irish Catholic Al Smith. He also lost spectacularly, but FDR would go on to complete the metamorphosis of the Democrats from the party of southern farmers to the party of urban immigrants. The rest is history. The southern Democrat party well and truly died in the 2014 midterm election, when Republicans swept southern Senate seats and statewide offices.
So when people go on to say that, "Democrats are the party of slavery", it's just wrong. The party of slavery is dead, and hasn't been more than a regional force for 100 years. There were two Democrat parties for 150 years, who shared little more than a name and would only sometimes unite to be effective. The Democrat party of today is the party of urban immigrants and the North.
This is mostly correct.
Significantly, when a political party gets very large the factions within become very large and powerful rivals.
I am reminded of the Republic of Florence in the time of Dante, around 1300 AD. Earlier there were two major parties: the Guelphs and the Ghibellines. The Ghibellines faded back as they lost popularity and the Guelphs swelled in numbers.. Eventually the party split into the Black Guelphs and the White Guelphs and they were at it again ...
This aforesaid is analogous to what happened to the Democratic Party in the first half of the 19th century.
The Whig Party (party of merchants, bankers and professionals) had by any measure collapsed, and former Whigs (like Lincoln) were left to find new viable political homes.
The Democratic Party had started out as a party for farmers and townsmen, and following Andrew Jackson had developed a formal structure (the DNC) to coordinate the activities of all the local or state parties and advance a common agenda. Within a few decades the Democratic Parity was extremely large and successful, and actually split formally when southern delegates walked out of the convention hall of 1860 (in Baltimore) to nominate (senator and former vice president) Breckenridge of Kentucky. The original convention went on to nominate (senator) Stephen Douglas of Illinois.
Had the civil war never happened it is very likely the two parties would have gone on their separate ways for all time, they had big unresolvable issues between them.
The southern wing had evolved to be dominated by the local large planters, and this did not always serve the smaller farmers very well, except in cases such as opposing tariffs, which made farm tools and other importable products more expensive.
The northern party had bigger and more numerous towns and smaller farms and this set the party on a different trajectory of representing people, most of whom did not own agri-businesses and slaves but instead very often were employees of various larger economic concerns like factories and railroads.
The War Between the States happened, the old economic order in the south had collapsed and the once independent southern Democratic party collapsed back into the national party. Working whites in the south saw the newly liberated blacks as competitors for jobs and land. The land-owning elites lost much of their property (and all of their slaves) and had to re-build, much of the land being seized on tax liens or bankruptcies by carpetbaggers from northern states flush with cash. These northern exploiters eventually formed a part of the new southern elites class as they accumulated property.
The Democratic party tended to have a split personality following this reconstruction era, the southern elites nominally Democrats often finding common cause with the northern elites who were Republicans. The first Republican party in the south virtually collapsed, being supported by blacks at the time, and went on life support, the wealthy in the south put their own efforts into dominating the Democratic party in their states, making common cause with Republicans on social issues.
I'll let you in on a widely know secret, there are two Democrat Parties today... they just haven't filed for separation yet!
Same as the Republicans where we will see the Religious conservatives and TEA Party go one way and the rest will go the other. I see this in the aftermath after Trump. I do think this will happen in 2021 but I could be off.
Same as the Republicans where we will see the Religious conservatives and TEA Party go one way and the rest will go the other. I see this in the aftermath after Trump. I do think this will happen in 2021 but I could be off.
We've lost some RINO Never-Trumpers, but, I don't see what you are suggesting happening.
Meanwhile... If Biden gets the nomination, Democrats will implode in 2020.
The antebellum Democrat party of slavery was decisively defeated in the Civil War, never to rise again.
After that, there were two Democrat parties, a northern version and a rump southern version. The southern version was a continuation of the Jefferson-Jackson party, while the northern version was something entirely new: the party of people who had immigrated to the US after independence.
From 1860 to 1928, Democrats only won 4 presidential elections, with 2 apiece going to Grover Cleveland and Woodrow Wilson.
Cleveland was a northern Democrat from Buffalo who was squeaky clean during a venal time in American politics. Largely a protest vote against the Gilded Age corruption.
Wilson is more interesting. He was a dyed-in-the-wool racist southern Democrat who also happened to be highly educated, the president of Princeton who brought graduate school to American shores. He was a bridge between the two Democrat parties, a racist and a reformer, whose political advisor was a northern Irishman named Tumulty.
Wilson was only elected because TR split the Republican vote. He was the last of the old southern Democrat party. The old Democrats would try again with progressive technocrats in James Cox and John Davis, who both lost spectacularly.
Then the new Democrat party took control, and nominated northern Irish Catholic Al Smith. He also lost spectacularly, but FDR would go on to complete the metamorphosis of the Democrats from the party of southern farmers to the party of urban immigrants. The rest is history. The southern Democrat party well and truly died in the 2014 midterm election, when Republicans swept southern Senate seats and statewide offices.
So when people go on to say that, "Democrats are the party of slavery", it's just wrong. The party of slavery is dead, and hasn't been more than a regional force for 100 years. There were two Democrat parties for 150 years, who shared little more than a name and would only sometimes unite to be effective. The Democrat party of today is the party of urban immigrants and the North.
The party of Slavery, Jim Crow, Internment camps, Abortion, High Taxes and Tyranny
Woodrow Wilson was not a Southern Democrat, even being born in Virginia. He was the Governor of New Jersey, not Georgia, where he spent some time as a kid.
FDR born and raised in New York.
How many of you pontificating here about southern Democratic party ever went a Democratic state convention? Or had family and friends active in the party?
I did as a child and as a high school student and as an adult.
The democratic party in Texas was always 2 factions. The conservative, establishment and the liberal progressives.
As I have said before, back in the 50's they had to put barbed wire around the podium to keep people from storming it.
As a Goldwater supporter in San Antonio, I personally inspected every dwelling that had a registered voter in my precinct. Eight vacant lots produced 16 voters. I told my leader. The response was who will we complain to? The county is run by Johnson Democrats.
At the time, LBJ ranch had a clause in the deed that it could not be sold to blacks or jews. That was common at the time. I had a house in Webster Groves Mo with the same clause. The civil rights act voided the clause.
Every single person I knew as a conservative Democrat switched parties after the civil rights act.
This is always a silly topic.
Trump supporters accept up is down and black is white, when it suits them. Rewriting history is now a popular pastime.
The tactic is if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth.
We've lost some RINO Never-Trumpers, but, I don't see what you are suggesting happening.
Meanwhile... If Biden gets the nomination, Democrats will implode in 2020.
When Trump is done, it will. I feel it will be 2020 just based on how much will hurt his chances. I'm not talking Mueller, but rather the tariffs, lack of healthcare, lack of wage increases from his tax cuts and the abortion issue. I feel as if the abortion issue woke up a sleeping giant of those that will vote Democrat because they disagree with the Republican logic. The constant threat of tariffs isn't helping the stock market, which is why I'm skeptic in the "agreement with Mexico" (that and Trump's past of moving goal posts) and who it effects. Trump wanted a cheaper healthcare plan that government would pay for and instead just looked to repeal Obamacare. And finally it is proven that the tax cuts which Trump has said would in fact increase wages, hasn't.
The issue is, once Trump is done (if he loses in 2020), the Republicans will have to question themselves on how they should go going forward, more so than the Democrats did with Hillary. The reason I say that is, Hillary you could chalk up to Russia, not getting out the vote enough in some states and the Clinton baggage. There isn't exactly a direct thing policy wise you could point to. While with Trump, you could shrug it off with being Trump, there is a lot of policy missteps he has taken and a lot of crisises he created. I'd argue that a good number of Obama's were Bush era (namely Fast & Furious.)
How many of you pontificating here about southern Democratic party ever went a Democratic state convention? Or had family and friends active in the party?
I did as a child and as a high school student and as an adult.
The democratic party in Texas was always 2 factions. The conservative, establishment and the liberal progressives.
As I have said before, back in the 50's they had to put barbed wire around the podium to keep people from storming it.
As a Goldwater supporter in San Antonio, I personally inspected every dwelling that had a registered voter in my precinct. Eight vacant lots produced 16 voters. I told my leader. The response was who will we complain to? The county is run by Johnson Democrats.
At the time, LBJ ranch had a clause in the deed that it could not be sold to blacks or jews. That was common at the time. I had a house in Webster Groves Mo with the same clause. The civil rights act voided the clause.
Every single person I knew as a conservative Democrat switched parties after the civil rights act.
This is always a silly topic.
Trump supporters accept up is down and black is white, when it suits them. Rewriting history is now a popular pastime.
And all of this is why I'm not a Goldwater supporter. 1964 was the watershed year. The Civil Rights Act was needed. One of the things many people will never admit that as things like the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act got passed, more conservative Democrats started trickling into the Republican Party. At first many went to vote for George Wallace in 1968, but the mid 1960s, that was a watershed time.
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