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Old 06-10-2019, 05:38 AM
 
26,599 posts, read 9,050,355 times
Reputation: 9262

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Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post

Kent Bicycles made headlines with its plans to produce 500,000 bikes annually in its new South Carolina factory in Manning. Production began in the fall of 2014


I could be wrong but 2014 -- that was BT -- before Trump -- before tariffs right?

Look -- Last year trade deficit went up 12 per cent.

I don't care how you spin it -- that does little to reduce the trade deficit with China.
No one said it did !!!
The reply was in response that manufacturing in the US was never coming back or was dead for eternity.

Why twist it into a pretzel ? Its a sign of dysfunctional conflation !!!

Here is a link explaining how American manufacturing benefits after Trump election. Bikes manufactured in America with Japanese batteries. Not 100% American but its better than 100% Chinees !!!

Panasonic finally enters US e-bike market with its own electric motors and batteries
https://electrek.co/2019/01/11/panas...e-bike-market/


Panasonic powered e-bikes coming to the US
According to Panasonic, global sales of electric bicycles is expected to reach 40 million by 2023. The company wants to ensure that they are able to serve as many of those global markets as possible. To break into the US electric bicycle market, Panasonic is entering into a partnership with the one of the largest bicycle manufacturers in North America, Kent International

Last edited by phma; 06-10-2019 at 05:55 AM..
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:39 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,779 posts, read 13,349,751 times
Reputation: 11309
Quote:
Originally Posted by J746NEW View Post
I thought the goal of the trade war was to bring back jobs to America?
Why don't we have tariffs on every slave labor country so the cheap labor express has nowhere to go except our country?
The stark and sad truth is that for a modern, consumerist society to survive, we need cheap labor. It is what it is.

The rest of the world was fine with using China as its factory up until a few years ago, and was willing to suffer many of the frustrations of doing business with China because it was "good for business," right up until it wasn't anymore.

China made its demands - technology transfers to local companies, mandated partnerships with local companies for market access, etc - and up until just about a year or so ago, while there were increasing grumblings over it, no one really made any moves. After 2008, China has pushed the narrative that the world needs China more than China needs the rest of the world; much of the world has believed this for some time, though that illusion has now been shattered and the rest of the world is acting accordingly. If China had waited another decade before trying to play hardball then I think they would have been able to come out on top, even with their demographic issues and their multiple bubbles. Now? ...

There's an increasing outflow of its manufacturing to other south- and southeast Asian nations, and those countries are actively courting foreign firms that are disgruntled with China's business climate. Hell, more Chinese businesses are sending manufacturing to these countries too, since the cost of labor here has skyrocketed (one European factory owner I know here said that his costs have increased sixfold in ten years; he has now split his operations between Vietnam and Mexico and is no longer here). Apologists and China's domestic talking heads will say that China has moved to a domestic, service based economy and now relies primarily on high-tech manufacturing, but that's not true at all. Its low-tech industries employ hundreds of millions, especially in its interior; it can't afford to lose those industries. Not everyone in China can work in tech, and its service sector is not yet mature enough to cover losing manufacturing.

Is China doomed? No.
Is it simply going to laugh this one off? Absolutely not.
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:40 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,779 posts, read 13,349,751 times
Reputation: 11309
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
How does it benefit the American worker? All countries copy and pursue IP theft. Trump has even said it himself, this is about trying to prevent China from becoming a developed country, because it will then have a bigger economy than America. This is what this is about. Not copying or protecting you or any worker. Thats ridiculous. Do you know what Vietnam is doing? India? The American worker is the least of the worry for corporate America. If you think you will benefit from production moving to Vietnam, I have a bridge to sell you.
idk if you noticed my location, Mike... lol.
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:44 AM
 
23,063 posts, read 12,281,155 times
Reputation: 7302
Quote:
Originally Posted by phma View Post
Events of the past don't always predict the future.
Ten coin flips landing on heads doesn't increase the odds that the next one will be heads either.
So you have know examples of tariffs ever NOT ending up with long term costs greater than long term benefits but you are hoping and gambling that maybe this time it might work.

Sound way to formulate a trade policy.
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:47 AM
 
12,842 posts, read 4,640,296 times
Reputation: 5213
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
The stark and sad truth is that for a modern, consumerist society to survive, we need cheap labor. It is what it is.

The rest of the world was fine with using China as its factory up until a few years ago, and was willing to suffer many of the frustrations of doing business with China because it was "good for business," right up until it wasn't anymore.

China made its demands - technology transfers to local companies, mandated partnerships with local companies for market access, etc - and up until just about a year or so ago, while there were increasing grumblings over it, no one really made any moves. After 2008, China has pushed the narrative that the world needs China more than China needs the rest of the world; much of the world has believed this for some time, though that illusion has now been shattered and the rest of the world is acting accordingly. If China had waited another decade before trying to play hardball then I think they would have been able to come out on top, even with their demographic issues and their multiple bubbles. Now? ...

There's an increasing outflow of its manufacturing to other south- and southeast Asian nations, and those countries are actively courting foreign firms that are disgruntled with China's business climate. Hell, more Chinese businesses are sending manufacturing to these countries too, since the cost of labor here has skyrocketed (one European factory owner I know here said that his costs have increased sixfold in ten years; he has now split his operations between Vietnam and Mexico and is no longer here). Apologists and China's domestic talking heads will say that China has moved to a domestic, service based economy and now relies primarily on high-tech manufacturing, but that's not true at all. Its low-tech industries employ hundreds of millions, especially in its interior; it can't afford to lose those industries. Not everyone in China can work in tech, and its service sector is not yet mature enough to cover losing manufacturing.

Is China doomed? No.
Is it simply going to laugh this one off? Absolutely not.
Its foolish to think low wages/cheap labor is needed. Thats just corporate propaganda. Its "needed" for elites who want to make as much profit as possible but its certainly not needed to grow a "modern consumerist society". Its like saying slavery is needed.

Plenty of countries have big trade surpluses with China. Its a myth that countries are suffering when trading with China. In fact, economic growth around the world has been boosted alot by trading with China. Its also very common around the world to demand technology transfers to local companies and mandate partnerships. Its absurd to celebrate companies moving to other countries that have even stricter regulations on foreign firms than China. But we all know this is not really about fighting "mandated partnerships" or tech transfer and most certainly not about "protecting the American worker".
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:00 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
22,883 posts, read 16,258,735 times
Reputation: 12796
Quote:
Originally Posted by phma View Post
Vietnam getting the Benefits of US–China Trade War as companies increasingly switch to alternative suppliers.

Trump's right again !!! China needs a deal more than the US does !!!

Vietnam Reaps the Benefits of US–China Trade War
https://www.theepochtimes.com/vietna...r_2956702.html

Vietnam is by far the biggest winner, having gained 7.9 percent of its gross domestic product (GDP) from trade diversion from both the U.S. and China tariffs

The other top beneficiaries of the U.S.–China trade conflict are Chile, Malaysia, and Argentina, according to the study.

“Based on these criteria, we find evidence of U.S. and China import substitution in 52 percent of the 1,981 tariffed products,” the report stated.

President Donald Trump earlier suggested that the tariffs would force companies to find new suppliers.
And this is good why?

Trump said those jobs would come back to the U.S.
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:03 AM
 
26,599 posts, read 9,050,355 times
Reputation: 9262
Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
So you have know examples of tariffs ever NOT ending up with long term costs greater than long term benefits but you are hoping and gambling that maybe this time it might work.

Sound way to formulate a trade policy.
America doesn't have to continue to be the worlds piggybank as much as some people want to believe it must. People who want to be weak and defeated generally are and throw in the white flag at the start of negotiations. That's what got us in the position we are in now.
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:07 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
22,883 posts, read 16,258,735 times
Reputation: 12796
Quote:
Originally Posted by J746NEW View Post
I think it shows the NWO wins.
The goal is to normalize the world economies while making a few wealthy rich in the process.
When Vietnam gets too big for their britches, we'll put tariffs on them as well and move to the next slave labor country.

Meanwhile, the poor and homeless will continue to grow in our own country[/b].
This.
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:13 AM
 
26,599 posts, read 9,050,355 times
Reputation: 9262
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post
And this is good why?

Trump said those jobs would come back to the U.S.
Under Trump manufacturing jobs have increased !!! So what's your point ?

Trump has the magic wand Obama couldn't find !!!

Manufacturers Added 6 Times More Jobs Under Trump Than Under ...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckde...-last-2-years/

Over the past two years, with the encouragement of the Trump Administration’s red-tape cutting policies and the tax cut and reform law passed in December 2017, manufacturers added 467,000 jobs, more than six times the 73,000 manufacturing jobs added in Obama’s last two years.

Last edited by phma; 06-10-2019 at 06:24 AM..
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:29 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
22,883 posts, read 16,258,735 times
Reputation: 12796
Quote:
Originally Posted by phma View Post
Under Trump manufacturing jobs have increased !!! So what's your point ?

Trump has the magic wand Obama couldn't find !!!

Manufacturers Added 6 Times More Jobs Under Trump Than Under ...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckde...-last-2-years/

Over the past two years, with the encouragement of the Trump Administration’s red-tape cutting policies and the tax cut and reform law passed in December 2017, manufacturers added 467,000 jobs, more than six times the 73,000 manufacturing jobs added in Obama’s last two years.
My point is that you are cheering jobs going to Vietnam, Argentina, etc.

I bought that was pretty clear.
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