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Old 06-10-2019, 06:43 AM
 
15,354 posts, read 4,053,162 times
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We have a friend who has been in Vietnam for 15 years as a sourcing and QC agent. My sailboat (2008) is made in Vietnam.

I remember 20 years ago when hard drives were being made in Indonesia.

As if any of this is new. Heck, CHINA outsources to a lot of lower wage countries and areas, just like the USA outsourced to the South (first) and then to Mexico. What else is new?

Maybe Trump should sign the TPP?
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:23 AM
 
26,784 posts, read 9,100,337 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
We have a friend who has been in Vietnam for 15 years as a sourcing and QC agent. My sailboat (2008) is made in Vietnam.

I remember 20 years ago when hard drives were being made in Indonesia.

As if any of this is new. Heck, CHINA outsources to a lot of lower wage countries and areas, just like the USA outsourced to the South (first) and then to Mexico. What else is new?

Maybe Trump should sign the TPP?
That would be a big mistake !!!
TPP consisted of hundreds of pages but approx. 33 had to do with trade.
The rest was about how international business and foreign countries could usurp our state and federal laws and create a continuous drain on the US treasury. It was essentially the back door model to become like the EU and be ruled by the unelected bureaucrats around the world. Its the status quo and leftist socialist/communist creep into power to rule Americans cradle to grave through trade agreement.

It really puts the democrats in a pickle !!! They hate successful companies and their profits but approving TPP would do just that !!! Put increased profits in big business !!! It really highlights how bipolar the democrats are and how double speak would carry the day !!!
No one would be surprised the GOP and their donors would be for it. That was one of the biggest wins to "MAGA" for America when Trump was elected and sent the TPP to the crapper !!!

Last edited by phma; 06-10-2019 at 07:41 AM..
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:48 AM
 
1,012 posts, read 175,086 times
Reputation: 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
Chinese robots will end all us manufacturing for good. The Chinese will use their people to service and fix robots, which they will sell to the rest of the world. The us can stay out of that world and be isolationist.
Elizabeth Warren has a interesting idea which is to provide government investment into Research and Development for new areas of opportunities, then provide that R&D free to companies as long as they manufacture their product in the USA. I am focusing on the specific idea here, not her campaign, trying to keep it focused.

That along with automation mostly eliminating the concern for hourly wages of one county vs another, we may be able to keep manufacturing but it will look different. Imagine 1000's of electronic products like iPhones, laptops, and other machines / devices that would be made here now if this policy was in place. And again the concept of work = paycheck would not apply here as few workers are needed so it doesn't help there.

Normally we have a functioning government and congress to help figure this stuff out, oh well.
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Jersey
2,299 posts, read 3,400,041 times
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A lot of people on this thread are looking at "small ideas". Geo-strategically, it makes absolute sense to "bust China at the kneecaps." For decades, we've allowed their ascendance with the (false) belief that they will reform. Now we have a nation that is nearly on the cusp of becoming the world's leading nation, showing absolutely zero sign of reform, and having the potential to upend a wrold order based around liberal, democratic values. For me, a scenario where the CCP will possibly become the world's leading decision making body is absolutely unacceptable, and it's high time that more people acknowledge the threat that China's potential ascendance poses.

The Chinese economy doesn't have to be destroyed, just stunted enough to let aging demographics take over.

Last edited by TylerJAX; 06-10-2019 at 08:01 AM..
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Barrington
45,910 posts, read 34,085,556 times
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China has been loosing to countries with cheaper sources of labor for a long, long time. India, Bangladesh and Vietnam are the primary winners. This includes products sold by Trump Org.

Nothing to do with trade policies. All to do with dirt cheap rural labor.
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:59 AM
 
1,012 posts, read 175,086 times
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China distracts us from the fact that moving manufacturing from China does not mean it comes back to the USA.

We treat diplomacy like a movie where there is a clear good guy, USA, and a clear bad guy China. But that is not how trade works, manufacturing could go to Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, India, Bangladesh and that is just some of Asia.

We still have another 10 countries in Africa, 2-3 in central America, and 4-5 more in South America that could all take some portion of China's manufacturing before ever returning to the USA. Cheap labor is plentiful in this world and many countries have governments willing to finance buildouts of manufacturing facilities. We can't figure out how to fund road construction or education, never mind figuring this out with the current crop of congressmen, many of which ran on eliminating government spending.
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Old 06-10-2019, 08:15 AM
 
15,354 posts, read 4,053,162 times
Reputation: 11068
2% of Chinese output represents the Entire importing into the USA from there.

Now.....say that ALL this BS (which is costing companies a lot of money and time...and consumers also) reduced that amount by 20%....

This would represent .4% of Chinese GDP output, or about how much they grow in a MONTH.......

Math is hard. If there was a safe way to place such bets, I'd grab some which put money on....

1. Total Trade with China with differ no more than 10% one way or the other (a rounding error) at the end of Trumps first term...for the 4 year period.

2. More Americans will be without "better cheaper for all" health insurance than at the start of his reign.

3. The total number of migrants and immigrants in this country will also be within a few percentages points of where it was at the start of his Monarchy.

In other words, nothing at all with change. No major legislation will address these issues because Trump and his followers don't believe in law and democracy.
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Old 06-10-2019, 08:20 AM
 
15,354 posts, read 4,053,162 times
Reputation: 11068
Quote:
Originally Posted by phma View Post
That would be a big mistake !!!
TPP consisted of hundreds of pages but approx. 33 had to do with trade.
The rest was about how international business and foreign countries could usurp our state and federal laws and create a continuous drain on the US treasury. It was essentially the back door model to become like the EU and be ruled by the unelected bureaucrats around the world. Its the status quo and leftist socialist/communist creep into power to rule Americans cradle to grave through trade agreement.

It really puts the democrats in a pickle !!! They hate successful companies and their profits but approving TPP would do just that !!! Put increased profits in big business !!! It really highlights how bipolar the democrats are and how double speak would carry the day !!!
No one would be surprised the GOP and their donors would be for it. That was one of the biggest wins to "MAGA" for America when Trump was elected and sent the TPP to the crapper !!!
Perception and reality are two different things.

Politics aside, the TPP basically was a partial bulwark against Chinese hegemony in the region.

So...now we have chaos instead..and China hold about 98% of the cards....and, no matter what, the end result will not help the American consumer, investor or "forgotten man"......

So who cares?

As long as "wins" are counted, as you seem to do, by bigly words....well, then, we are willing thousands of times. So much winning that the Fed is going to have to lower interest rates to "stimulate" our booming economy.
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Old 06-10-2019, 08:25 AM
 
12,845 posts, read 4,653,297 times
Reputation: 5214
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
China has been loosing to countries with cheaper sources of labor for a long, long time. India, Bangladesh and Vietnam are the primary winners. This includes products sold by Trump Org.

Nothing to do with trade policies. All to do with dirt cheap rural labor.
And South Korea had been "losing" to cheaper China prior to that. Its just a natural process as countries develop. Its hardly a loss to lose sweatshops as wages rise and climb on the development ladder.

BTW, how dominant are American companies in the domestic market of "free and fair" South Korea and Japan? Whats the IP protection situation in Bangladesh?
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Old 06-10-2019, 08:59 AM
 
26,784 posts, read 9,100,337 times
Reputation: 9336
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Perception and reality are two different things.

Politics aside, the TPP basically was a partial bulwark against Chinese hegemony in the region.

So...now we have chaos instead..and China hold about 98% of the cards....and, no matter what, the end result will not help the American consumer, investor or "forgotten man"......

So who cares?

As long as "wins" are counted, as you seem to do, by bigly words....well, then, we are willing thousands of times. So much winning that the Fed is going to have to lower interest rates to "stimulate" our booming economy.
That may be your perception but its not any more connected to reality than others !!!
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