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Old 06-18-2019, 09:36 AM
 
12,710 posts, read 3,222,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS Jaun View Post
"Evangelicals" "anti-gay"? You do know there 100s if not thousands of Evangelical churches that have LGBT affirming houses of worship? I dont know why some people here act like all Evangelicals are the same. Source: Gaychurch.org
You make the good point regarding the folly of judgement based on anecdotes and personal experience, but larger data pools, statistics and/or broader demographic representation tends to clearly show what my personal experience with religious people has also shown...

"Many of the largest U.S. religious institutions have remained firmly against allowing same-sex marriage, including the Roman Catholic Church, the Orthodox Jewish movement and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as well as the Southern Baptist Convention and other evangelical Protestant denominations. The nationís largest historically black church, the National Baptist Convention, and its biggest Pentecostal denomination, the Assemblies of God, also prohibit their clergy from marrying same-sex couples."

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...-gay-marriage/
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:43 AM
 
12,710 posts, read 3,222,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleura123 View Post
Yep. Absolutely.

Like Green_mariner, I was liberal when I was a teenager. I supported Gore back in 2000. I grew more conservative with the years. Wasn't a fan of McCain - way too much of a warmonger IMO. I originally liked Obama (or at least I saw him as the lesser of 2 evils), but he turned out to be a warmonger, too, in line with the neo-cons.
The very idea of a Hillary-Clinton presidency gave me the chills.

Trump saved the US and the world from that, and he turned out to be a good President in many ways.
Understanding how some people can see Trump in this sort of positive light while others see Trump as more like an abomination is very difficult, but perhaps not all that different from understanding how some people are Christian vs Muslim...

"Donald Trump said in an interview with George Stephanopoulos: I have heard a lot of things in my life. I have never gone to the FBI.

I mean, he was talking as a New York real estate guy. He's never made the transition to, I'm thinking, is it good for the United States of America, is it good for the working families, is it good for world peace or whatever, that a president is supposed to think through that prism.

It comes right down to, is it good for me?" -- Syndicated columnist Mark Shields
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:45 AM
 
12,710 posts, read 3,222,369 times
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Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
It takes a pretty selfish person to only consider what serves them best rather than what is best for our country as a whole. I don't admire the "it's all about me" attitude. I couldn't sleep at night but then some of us aren't self-centered or tribal.
Per the quote I just posted, seems we recognize and hardly admire the same thing about Trump, just for starters!
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:48 AM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 11 days ago)
 
48,106 posts, read 45,475,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Per the quote I just posted, seems we recognize and hardly admire the same thing about Trump, just for starters!
The way I see it, alot of people are out for themselves. It would take a big disaster or some big attack for people to see things in a "we're in this together" kind of way.
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Well, this is how I understand things. Two people might live next door to one another. However, they will have different problems, different issues. They are going to pick the person who will look out for their interests. They aren't going to think in terms of "look out for national interests". For person A, a problem they need addressed is more important to them than the national interests. Why? Because person A figured person B will vote for a person who supports policies that are against person A's interest. Person A is going to look out for self because person A figures person B might be a threat to them.
I understand things a little differently or perhaps just not quite as either/or...

Why not both?

Needless to say we're all inclined to look out for our personal interests, especially at the local level, but to ignore what is happening around us on a larger scale? We should care what happens with our neighbors? At the local maybe state level, but not at the national level? Not sure I understand that way of thinking. Tends to be the problem of "not seeing the forest for the trees" sort of thing...

Last edited by LearnMe; 06-18-2019 at 09:59 AM..
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:57 AM
 
12,710 posts, read 3,222,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
The way I see it, alot of people are out for themselves. It would take a big disaster or some big attack for people to see things in a "we're in this together" kind of way.
"People are different" as my daughter is famous (here) for noting at a very young age...

Again there is no doubt that people will "look out for their own," but whether that's all they do begins to separate some of the more self-centered people from those a little less self-centered. That or some people recognize that working together can very often foster better results on both a personal level and broader level.

Politics, government, organizations, religions and so on are nothing but the result of thinking collaboratively...
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Old 06-18-2019, 10:59 AM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 11 days ago)
 
48,106 posts, read 45,475,380 times
Reputation: 15330
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
I understand things a little differently or perhaps just not quite as either/or...

Why not both?

Needless to say we're all inclined to look out for our personal interests, especially at the local level, but to ignore what is happening around us on a larger scale? We should care what happens with our neighbors? At the local maybe state level, but not at the national level? Not sure I understand that way of thinking. Tends to be the problem of "not seeing the forest for the trees" sort of thing...
I understand things based on what I'm around and where I live.

It's not just the local level that people tend to look out for themselves. It happens at the national level. However, it depends on where you live, who you are, and what issues you have to deal with. At the end of the day, it boils down to measuring what is the most important to an individual.

Example: I live in Georgia. Blacks are 30 percent of the state's population. Whites are 56 percent of the population. Culturally, the average Black person here in Georgia has more in common with the average White southerner than an elite from Boston or New York City. This is the Bible Belt and the Baptist church looms large, for both Blacks and Whites. So does the Methodist church to an extent. However, the voting patterns, both locally and nationally, are very stratified.

In a state like Iowa or Minnesota, it's rural vs urban that lines up with Republican vs Democrat. In Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi, race is a bigger factor. If you check out the rural counties, Blacks in rural areas will heavily vote Democrat, while Whites in rural areas vote Republican. Blacks and Whites in the South are very religious. Both share certain elements of southern culture. However, this ends when it comes to the vote, especially outside of the cities.

I can go into a Black Baptist church and a White Baptist church and find people in both churches agreeing on being against the gay lifestyle. However, I don't find many Black churches allying with the Republican Party as part of the "moral majority". If anything, Blacks in the South are more likely to NOT support Republicans. It boils down to "who is the bigger threat? The candidate who is okay with gay marriage, or the candidate who is kind of cold/doesn't seem to care about Blacks very much". One votes based on who is the lesser threat. While there are some cultural aspects that both people have in common, there are still lingering issues. Many vote based on what's best for themselves.
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Old 06-18-2019, 11:15 AM
 
12,710 posts, read 3,222,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I understand things based on what I'm around and where I live.

It's not just the local level that people tend to look out for themselves. It happens at the national level. However, it depends on where you live, who you are, and what issues you have to deal with. At the end of the day, it boils down to measuring what is the most important to an individual.

Example: I live in Georgia. Blacks are 30 percent of the state's population. Whites are 56 percent of the population. Culturally, the average Black person here in Georgia has more in common with the average White southerner than an elite from Boston or New York City. This is the Bible Belt and the Baptist church looms large, for both Blacks and Whites. So does the Methodist church to an extent. However, the voting patterns, both locally and nationally, are very stratified.

In a state like Iowa or Minnesota, it's rural vs urban that lines up with Republican vs Democrat. In Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi, race is a bigger factor. If you check out the rural counties, Blacks in rural areas will heavily vote Democrat, while Whites in rural areas vote Republican. Blacks and Whites in the South are very religious. Both share certain elements of southern culture. However, this ends when it comes to the vote, especially outside of the cities.

I can go into a Black Baptist church and a White Baptist church and find people in both churches agreeing on being against the gay lifestyle. However, I don't find many Black churches allying with the Republican Party as part of the "moral majority". If anything, Blacks in the South are more likely to NOT support Republicans. It boils down to "who is the bigger threat? The candidate who is okay with gay marriage, or the candidate who is kind of cold/doesn't seem to care about Blacks very much". One votes based on who is the lesser threat. While there are some cultural aspects that both people have in common, there are still lingering issues. Many vote based on what's best for themselves.
Time for me to sign off now, but before I do...

I think we all understand things based on where we live and all else that tends to make up our life experience, including our parents' influence, family and friends, education, what we read, follow in the news, watch on TV and of course our ability to think critically. Can't argue with what it all boils down to for the individual, but each individual will boil down what is most important to them based on the same set of different experience and/or criteria. What makes us all different.

I'm not exactly sure what you are explaining that maybe you think needs explaining to me, but perhaps if you would make that clear, I'd better understand. Otherwise, all you note makes sense and comes as no surprise to me generally speaking, certainly in terms of your personal experience and how you "understand things" anyway.

Maybe if we more specifically identified how we see things differently, it may be interesting to understand why that is. Otherwise, yes of course people have different perspectives depending on whether they live in a rural area vs urban, big city vs small town, black county vs white vs Hispanic, the South vs the NE, the Bible Belt vs the West Coast. No argument along those lines anyway...

Thanks for your insights BTW.
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Old 06-18-2019, 01:24 PM
 
18,838 posts, read 9,626,388 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vf6cruiser View Post
As the libs try to figure out Trump and are becoming increasingly deranged they prove the premise. The Trump base runs in the background untouched by the lamestream media and the imitation wonks in print media as well. The major failure of conservatism so far is our failure to put arch constitutionalists/patriots in the educational pipeline in the 60's when leftist nut cases were everywhere. They have now harvested a crop of witless snowflakes who are twisted in every way. Eco freaks and tree huggers who get a sense of worth from recycling, rather than understanding the brilliance of our founding fathers and the constitution. As the USA was setup to prosper with self sustaining capitalist citizens who don't need to rely on government, it's probably not going to end well.
I assume by liberal, you mean leftists.

The conservatives know jack about the leftists.

The conservatives think the leftists are people with different or wrong opinions while the leftists know the conservatives are pure evil (racist, bigoted, homophobic etc.)and must be eliminated or sent to a gulag at the minimum.
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Old 06-18-2019, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Israel
260 posts, read 53,276 times
Reputation: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
By a wide margin (59% to 36%), Republicans say abortion should be illegal in all or most cases.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ould-be-legal/
Oh, sure. At the national level, yes. But I was talking about NYC Republicans. You can be certain that the numbers would be different for that group.
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