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Old 06-11-2019, 11:45 AM
 
12,642 posts, read 10,487,316 times
Reputation: 17442

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Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post
Every time I make a case that at its root prostitution is a rights issue in general. That prostitution is just liek any other labor with all the rights in general.

You respond with the same... that this thread isn't about other labor types or rights in general.

It is absolutely about rights in general, dominion over body, privacy, and right to choose. But you'd rather control the discussion about sex only because in your view sex is "special".

I made a long list of examples of this... of course you ignored. Whenever you choose to give exception to rights, choices, views based solely on your objection of sex work, you are biased.


What makes you think that the discussion over other labor types is a separate discussion from prostitution?
One of the bases of my opinions is rooted in the radical feminist belief that sex work, anything where men are buying access to a woman's body, inherently harms women and creates an imbalance and harms the way men view women. So I don't think, personally, that it is equal to other types of work in the same way you do.

This is a fundamental basis of our disagreement, we will never agree. You see sex work as fine even in cases where it truly is consensual, I disagree because I think it is inherently harmful. I don't necessarily think it being illegal is a good idea, but I don't condone it.
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Old 06-11-2019, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Federal Way, WA
632 posts, read 191,242 times
Reputation: 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
This is a very simplistic way to look at it, unsurprising given your whole post. A lot of women involved in prostitution have either been trafficked (which isn't always the kidnapping scenario people imagine when they hear it, in fact it often happens close to where women and teens live, they are targeted because of their home and life situations, who they are, coerced away and then basically trapped, it is very calculated) or they feel like they have no other option because they come from terrible home lives and backgrounds, lack education, lack skills, are poor, on drugs, mentally ill, etc. It's easy to judge but the situations are truly sad, maybe have more compassion.

I always say that I doubt many women voluntarily go into prostitution, it isn't something we aspire to. It is something society generally looks down upon, even men yet some men will use them no problem. Some may choose it but it isn't like they have a ton of options if they do, or they feel like they don't. They often have very sad stories and are exploited and yes, it is far more dehumanizing for women because they are the ones being paid for use of their bodies intimately. The men, the buyers, have the power - physically and otherwise.
There are plenty of women who end up in horrific life situations where they could use money and could choose to sell their body into prostitution, but they make other choices instead. In your scenario, its mens' fault regardless of if they are being forced into it or even if they choose to do it because they are in a tough spot. I feel sorry for them making such a huge mistake, but people should own their mistakes instead of always saying its other people that are to blame.

People become burglars sometimes out of desperation for money just to get food to eat and have basic shelter and clothes. That doesn't make it not their fault when they choose to go down that road. Same with prostitution. I have compassion and hope people in either situation turns it around and I applaud them when they do without holding their past against them. Compassion doesn't require one to think someone is a dehumanized victim when they had a choice to take another route.
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Old 06-11-2019, 12:31 PM
Status: "think locally, act yokelly." (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
3,245 posts, read 576,334 times
Reputation: 975
For those interested, there is a recent book on the topic that I found very informative: Getting Screwed: Sex Workers and the Law

Getting Screwed | Alison Bass

The writer is a long-time journalist who worked for the Boston Globe and now teaches journalism. She comes from a pro-legalization perspective. She covers how legalization has panned out in countries like New Zealand and Holland, and debunks a lot of myths about that.

She interviews sex workers and recounts some of their stories and legal battles. She recounts some harrowing stories of police abuses of sex trade workers. She doesn't say it, but I believe this is a major reason why 'vice' police are so often adamantly opposed to legalization. First, it puts them out of a job, but second, it removes an opportunity for them to get free sex from sex workers.
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Old 06-11-2019, 12:38 PM
 
Location: NNJ
9,501 posts, read 5,356,621 times
Reputation: 10456
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
One of the bases of my opinions is rooted in the radical feminist belief that sex work, anything where men are buying access to a woman's body, inherently harms women and creates an imbalance and harms the way men view women. So I don't think, personally, that it is equal to other types of work in the same way you do.

This is a fundamental basis of our disagreement, we will never agree. You see sex work as fine even in cases where it truly is consensual, I disagree because I think it is inherently harmful. I don't necessarily think it being illegal is a good idea, but I don't condone it.
Of course you have the right to your opinion and views.

But don't act and deny it.... They are biases and assumptions no more no less.

As I said earlier.

Everyone has a right to their own views and opinions.

Expecting others to have the same views and opinions is wrong.

Writing or supporting those views or opinions in legislation is oppressive.


I don't like what some groups (white power, kkk, black power etc) have to say... Some of it disgusts me as much as sex for money does to you.

But

I will stand by them when it comes to their right to express and voice those opinions and views.

As long as you are unable to set aside your biases and think critically, you cannot be objective. You may not like prostitution but you should be able to set aside that bias in order to critically think from the perspective of rights in general.

Ps. Your view isn't rooted in radical feminist belief. Please look it up and read further. Among the feminists, it is a divided topic... But most modern feminists I have run into believe that dominion over body is a right that needs to be protected. Yes that includes right sell.
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Old 06-11-2019, 12:40 PM
Status: "Be yourself. What's the alternative?" (set 16 days ago)
 
8,675 posts, read 10,831,402 times
Reputation: 12722
Better than having it illegal. Health checks and everything, but not the best line of work. A lot of women doing it have a hx of abuse as children, replaying that abuse in a different way. Can't be good.
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Old 06-11-2019, 12:51 PM
 
Location: San Diego
35,146 posts, read 32,128,390 times
Reputation: 19687
Quote:
Originally Posted by imbobbbb View Post
I think much of what you said is true.

I do think however that 'IF women were willing to pay for sex ' there would be no shortage of male prostitutes and most of them would go into it voluntarily.I doubt they would be shown any sympathy from anyone.
Women are willing to pay for sex. Wealthy women who are middle aged and have a husband not keeping her satisfied are always looking for sex. They just do it differently. Usually trolling the clubs for good looking younger men.

Once someone finds one they will pass that number on to like minded friends. I've been solicited for sex like that. She asked me if I ever thought of getting paid for it. I was like, "no". I didn't but some of my friends did.
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Old 06-11-2019, 01:27 PM
Status: "think locally, act yokelly." (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
3,245 posts, read 576,334 times
Reputation: 975
My bet would be that the bill linked in post#1 will be going nowhere. It's the 'tyranny of the majority' effect.' There are too many powerful interests that would oppose this.

Even Elliot Spitzer, who was spending thousands on prostitutes for his own enjoyment, was very tough on prostitution as NY atty. gen. and NY gov. Why? His personal inclinations were one thing, but as a politician he knew where his bread was buttered.
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Old 06-11-2019, 01:58 PM
 
18,797 posts, read 9,614,866 times
Reputation: 5279
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
One of the bases of my opinions is rooted in the radical feminist belief that sex work, anything where men are buying access to a woman's body, inherently harms women and creates an imbalance and harms the way men view women. So I don't think, personally, that it is equal to other types of work in the same way you do.

This is a fundamental basis of our disagreement, we will never agree. You see sex work as fine even in cases where it truly is consensual, I disagree because I think it is inherently harmful. I don't necessarily think it being illegal is a good idea, but I don't condone it.
Simple enough. Don’t sell sex to men.

I don’t know why government needs to be involved here.
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Old 06-11-2019, 02:07 PM
 
Location: California
30,684 posts, read 33,450,741 times
Reputation: 26109
I'm ok with it on the condition that it's not something that needs regulation, ie: it's adults living their lives and that's all. Just don't start classifying it as "work" and making it seem like a legit field for people to get into or offer protections like we do for employees in other industries.
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Old 06-11-2019, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
14,935 posts, read 13,320,636 times
Reputation: 4553
In Oklahoma, the police consider women prostitutes may be victims of human trafficking. It seems often to be the case. If so, charges are dropped and they may be sent somewhere that is supposed to help victims.

If prostitution were legalized, I would hope that would cause human trafficking to decrease.

Stillwater police monitor for possible human trafficking | News | ocolly.com
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