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Old 06-10-2019, 10:01 PM
 
Location: NNJ
9,515 posts, read 5,362,611 times
Reputation: 10468

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
This long post addresses none of my actual concerns, you're just talking about other examples of prostitutes or other types of sex workers entirely.

I don't need to say again what my concerns are, I have said them enough. You are on a different page.
You keep ignoring the biasesand assumptions I am pointing out.

I answered your questions in the post I replied.

You asked how. Many aspire. My answer is that it is irrevelant....

You asked how many I knew... I answered.

And the answer to your concerns has always been... Who makes you the overlord of how people live and do in private?

As for the particular vulnerable you pointed out...I asked why are not concerned about the victims in other job types? Why single out sex work....? I also pointed out that the very laws that make it illegal is victimizing the sex workers you supposedly care about. I also explained the best way to fight it... Involve the community. But doing so can only be done when you decriminalize it. You can't claim to care and yet support treating them like criminals.

No surprise tho.. Remember you said no one can change your mind... Thats doesn't leave much room for reasoning... Just bias and assumptions.

Last edited by usayit; 06-10-2019 at 10:11 PM..
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:16 PM
 
12,651 posts, read 10,497,278 times
Reputation: 17539
Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post
You keep ignoring the biasesand assumptions I am pointing out.

I answered your questions in the post I replied.

You asked how. Many aspire. My answer is that it is irrevelant....

You asked how many I knew... I answered.

And the answer to your concerns has always been... Who makes you the overlord of how people live and do in private?

As for the particular vulnerable you pointed out...I asked why are not concerned about the victims in other job types? Why single out sex work....? I also pointed out that the very laws that make it illegal is victimizing the sex workers you supposedly care about. I also explained the best way to fight it... Involve the community. But doing so can only be done when you decriminalize it. You can't claim to care and yet support treating them like criminals.

No surprise tho.. Remember you said no one can change your mind... Thats doesn't leave much room for reasoning... Just bias and assumptions.
From my first post I mentioned "[there will always be] vulnerable women in positions to sell themselves, feeling like they have no other choice," if you have been talking about prostitutes who aren't in this category, you have been on a different page than me this entire time. I have recognized from the beginning that not everyone is in that type of situation and that I see the positives to legalizing but that I also have concerns. But my concerns stem primarily from women who ARE in those situations I have been talking about this entire time. And they exist. Even though women who aren't in those situations exist, women who are in them exist, too.

Your first post to me mentioned "two consenting adults," but my concern isn't with two adults who are truly consenting. I do have concerns with the societal impacts of prostitution overall but my concern is with, for example, the LGBT youth mentioned in the article who run away from home who are much more likely to engage in sex work than other youth. I doubt they are truly freely and voluntarily entering sex work, kids who have run away from home, it sounds like a bad situation to me. If you disagree, then we have a fundamental disagreement on what "voluntary" means in some situations.

Who said I am not concerned about possible victims in other jobs? This thread is about prostitution, not other jobs. I also did not say I want to treat prostitutes like criminals. I don't think prostitutes should be arrested, but the people who use them I think at least in some circumstances should be.

You saying I'm biased over and over again won't make it true. Again, I am talking about some prostitutes, not all. I have clarified that the whole time yet you insist. If you can't understand that at this point, there isn't much else I can say. I honestly think YOU are biased, you are letting all the people you know who don't fall into the category of people I am talking about dictate your posts to me, when I am not talking about those people at all because I am far less concerned about them.
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:20 PM
 
10,559 posts, read 2,696,917 times
Reputation: 7160
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFit View Post
It doesn't dehumanize women any more than men, except when women are forced into prostitution by coercion. Women making stupid decisions to sell their body for cash is their own fault. Rotten men making stupid decisions to give some nasty skank cash for a few minutes of risky sex is their own fault. Both are acting on impulsive thoughts that any sensible person would avoid.
Maybe so, but should GOVT be involved and/or be creating and enforcing laws against it... NOT imo! NOT at all!


Just like the drug laws, I dont think many people realize, as long as govt has laws on the books making something illegal...that is benefiting the criminal organizations! Without those laws, they would be out of business, out of the equation, in other words, the laws are protecting and benefiting them.(aiding and abetting).


Whats that called when govt creates laws, that benefit and protect criminal organizations?
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:24 PM
 
Location: NNJ
9,515 posts, read 5,362,611 times
Reputation: 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
From my first post I mentioned "[there will always be] vulnerable women in positions to sell themselves, feeling like they have no other choice," if you have been talking about prostitutes who aren't in this category, you have been on a different page than me this entire time. I have recognized from the beginning that not everyone is in that type of situation and that I see the positives to legalizing but that I also have concerns. But my concerns stem primarily from women who ARE in those situations I have been talking about this entire time. And they exist. Even though women who aren't in those situations exist, women who are in them exist, too.

Your first post to me mentioned "two consenting adults," but my concern isn't with two adults who are truly consenting. I do have concerns with the societal impacts of prostitution overall but my concern is with, for example, the LGBT youth mentioned in the article who run away from home who are much more likely to engage in sex work than other youth. I doubt they are truly freely and voluntarily entering sex work, kids who have run away from home, it sounds like a bad situation to me. If you disagree, then we have a fundamental disagreement on what "voluntary" means in some situations.

Who said I am not concerned about possible victims in other jobs? This thread is about prostitution, not other jobs. I also did not say I want to treat prostitutes like criminals. I don't think prostitutes should be arrested, but the people who use them I think at least in some circumstances should be.

You saying I'm biased over and over again won't make it true. Again, I am talking about some prostitutes, not all. I have clarified that the whole time yet you insist. If you can't understand that at this point, there isn't much else I can say. I honestly think YOU are biased, you are letting all the people you know who don't fall into the category of people I am talking about dictate your posts to me, when I am not talking about those people at all because I am far less concerned about them.
As long as you assume that an adult of free will isn't truly free will simply because it is sex work makes you biased.

You wouldn't say the same for a person working another undesirable job.

You single out sex work for no other reason that you don't like the concept of sex for money... That makes you biased.
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Bran's tree
11,060 posts, read 4,860,550 times
Reputation: 12417
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
What consenting adults do in their private life is none of your business.

Do you really think homosexuality is not disturbing? Nature has never intended for the same sex to be together. That’s anti-science and anti-nature.
Nature didn't intend for us to do 90% of the stuff most people do every day. Yet people spending 12 hours a day in a cubicle is praised and encouraged.

Hell, vaccines certainly ain't natural, but I'm very glad they exist.
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:27 PM
 
12,651 posts, read 10,497,278 times
Reputation: 17539
Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post
As long as you assume that an adult of free will isn't free will simply because it is sex work makes you biased.

You wouldn't say the same for a person working another undesirable job.

Thta makes you biased.
That is not what I am assuming, you're totally not getting it and it's getting ridiculous.
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:30 PM
 
Location: NNJ
9,515 posts, read 5,362,611 times
Reputation: 10468
Slowly reading through 13 pages of legal jargon


I caught a section that applies Romeo and juliet rules to legalization. While it makes sense as it is a private matter in a legal context, I don't think it would go well with many.
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:38 PM
 
Location: NNJ
9,515 posts, read 5,362,611 times
Reputation: 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
That is not what I am assuming, you're totally not getting it and it's getting ridiculous.
Read you previous posts...

You make assumptions and I as well as others have pointed out.

Being in an undesirable job that no one aspires to with little opportunity doesn't mean the lack of choice and free will. You seem to think that prostitution because it is sex for money assumed to be an undesirable job that no one wants to aspire to removes that choice.

Most have a choice.... That exception to sex work is a bias.

If you approach this from labor view... There is no difference between sex work and other labor types.

If you approach this from a sex view, nothing matters except two consenting adults right to privacy.
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:44 PM
 
12,651 posts, read 10,497,278 times
Reputation: 17539
Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post
Read you previous posts...

You make assumptions and I as well as others have pointed out.

Being in an undesirable job with little opportunity doesn't mean they don't have a choice. You seem to think that prostitution because it is assumed to be an undesirable job that no one wants to aspire to re. Ives that choice.

Most have a choice.... That exception to sex work is a bias.
They have a choice, sure. Everyone has a choice all the time unless they're truly under coercion. But I don't think all of them truly want to do it, I think some feel they have no better options. Which could be for a variety of reasons. This could and does apply for other jobs as well but this thread is not about other types of work that some might do because they feel they have no better options, it is about prostitution.

I don't think something is 100% voluntary if one doesn't really want to do it but feels like they have to. It is not black and white.

My assumptions are not blanket statements, I recognize that circumstances differ. I have never said "all women or all prostitutes x." Still don't see the massive problem you have with my posts other than being on totally different pages.

I am saying "some/many prostitutes are in x situation." You're saying "not all, some are in other situations." I never said otherwise, they are both true but I am not primarily concerned with those in other situations because I see those other situations as far less problematic.

Last edited by JerseyGirl415; 06-10-2019 at 11:02 PM..
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Old 06-10-2019, 11:04 PM
 
Location: NNJ
9,515 posts, read 5,362,611 times
Reputation: 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
. But I don't think all of them truly want to do it, I think some feel they have no better options. Which could be for a variety of reasons. This could and does apply for other jobs as well but this thread is not about other types of work that some might do because they feel they have no better options, it is about prostitution.

I don't think something is 100% voluntary if one doesn't really want to do it but feels like they have to. It is not black and white.

The bolded part is a bias and is present in most of your responses.

The point is that right to privacy between two concenting adults makes this thread more than just prostitution and cannot be discussed in isolation...

Right to free will of choice irregardless of whether aspires, wants, likes a job makes this thread more than just prositution and cannot be discussed in isolation.

Attempting to do so because it is sex for money is a bias. If you truly were not biased then talking about prostitution in terms of individual choice in general or privacy in general would be a natural and acceptable discussion point...

Let me put it this way...

If this was a thread about women's right to vote, you cannot argue equal rights without discussing the rights that men have in comparison. Saying said thread isn't about men but only women doesn't hold water.

People either have the right to privacy or they don't... making exceptions when sex for money is involved is a bias
People either have dominion over their body or they don't... making exceptions when sex for money is involved is a bias.
It is legal to sell.. making exception when the service is sex is a bias
It is legal to have sex with whomever one chooses... making exception when money is exchanged is a bias
Net neutrality... making exceptions for sex work related content (FOSTA/SESTA) is a bias
Of all the most common labor types in human trafficking, only prostitution is illegal... that is a bias
People are under the protections of labor laws... but not prostitutes.. that is a bias
A victim of violence is treated as a victim... but if she is a prostitute, she is a criminal.. that is a bias.

When we have all these legal gymnastics to make exceptions for sex work simply because society looks down on it or it is taboo, that is a prevalent bias against a certain relatively small group of people. The same bias that is perpetuated in your responses.

Last edited by usayit; 06-10-2019 at 11:47 PM..
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