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View Poll Results: Should the Democrats make their Primary Democratic?
Yes: It is hypocritical to have such an undemocratic system while claiming to expand democracy 12 75.00%
No: We want Party leaders to create a less democratic system for picking candidates 4 25.00%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-11-2019, 07:18 AM
 
16,750 posts, read 9,100,771 times
Reputation: 6780

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Democrats want an end to the Electoral College and are even working on a possibly unconstitutional compact to circumnavigate it without an amendment. All while ignoring that Hillary campaigned horribly as she visited Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin combined less than she visited individual states that she was guaranteed to win like Massachusetts, New York, and California. I guess those last three states have the mega donors and took precedence over campaigning for electoral votes.

To show Republicans that they are sincere in wanting to improve Democracy they need to take the following steps for their Democratic Party Primary now.

(1) Get rid of all super-delegates, this is extremely anti-democratic.

(2) In fact get rid of all delegates and get rid of winner takes all/winner takes a plurality systems.

(3) Get rid of caucus style voting, which can take several hours and discourages a lot of middle and lower income people from attending.

(4) Implement a straight up national-vote popular vote system. No whining about how this would wash away New Hampshire and Iowa's influence. You could get this done early enough and have a second round of voting between the final two candidates to make sure one gets a majority if you wanted.

(5) Better organize how states vote. Why is it fair that New Hampshire and Iowa always get to go first and other states always go so late after if it is usually already decided. This puts undue influence in New Hampshire and Iowa as it builds momentum and narratives for candidates. Either rotate the states' order or have them all go at once after several rounds of debate.

In 2008, Michigan and Florida were punished for moving their election times up early to try to gain more influence - essentially the Democratic Party disenfranchised the then 4th and 8th most populated states in their primary over the question of voting order. How "undemocratic" of the Democrats.

(6) Four states in the Democratic Primary do not even release vote totals. How absurd is that? Make the vote transparent.

https://www.factcheck.org/2008/06/cl...-popular-vote/

(7) Make a better debating system whereby party leaders can't feed questions in advance to the preferred candidate. Perhaps let each candidate bring a certain amount of questions and topics to the debates.

https://nypost.com/2016/10/31/cnn-dr...ns-to-clinton/


These moves would show everyone that the Democrats are truly sincere in expanding democracy.
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Old 06-11-2019, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Texas
35,208 posts, read 19,266,750 times
Reputation: 20835
1. Contact the DNC.

2. Demand action.

3. Keep us updated.

Carry on.

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Old 06-11-2019, 10:41 AM
 
16,750 posts, read 9,100,771 times
Reputation: 6780
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
1. Contact the DNC.

2. Demand action.

3. Keep us updated.

Carry on.

So you don't care about democratic voting in the primary? All of this talk about expanding democracy in presidential elections is purely political posturing as the Democrats feel the electoral college favors the GOP at the moment. Otherwise Democrats would oppose getting rid of the electoral college?
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:58 AM
 
Location: North America
19,634 posts, read 12,431,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
So you don't care about democratic voting in the primary? All of this talk about expanding democracy in presidential elections is purely political posturing as the Democrats feel the electoral college favors the GOP at the moment. Otherwise Democrats would oppose getting rid of the electoral college?
The electoral college favors the GOP, because the GOP gerrymandered it that way.

Hypocritical? Try cleaning up the GOP first.
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Old 06-11-2019, 11:04 AM
 
16,750 posts, read 9,100,771 times
Reputation: 6780
Quote:
Originally Posted by carterstamp View Post
The electoral college favors the GOP, because the GOP gerrymandered it that way.

Hypocritical? Try cleaning up the GOP first.
Tell me how exactly the GOP Gerrymandered the Electoral College?

The Republican Party started in 1854, a bit after the Philadelphia Convention of 1787.

Perhaps are you confused and conflating two completely different things: the electoral college with how states draw house of representative districts??? Which party gerrymandered first in the US?

So anyways, your point is off topic, due to your confusion of what the electoral college is.
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Old 06-11-2019, 11:16 AM
 
Location: 15 months till retirement and I can leave the hell hole of New Yakistan
25,290 posts, read 14,028,371 times
Reputation: 6494
Quote:
Originally Posted by carterstamp View Post
The electoral college favors the GOP, because the GOP gerrymandered it that way.

Hypocritical? Try cleaning up the GOP first.
the gop gerrymandered the EC...you don't say, so we can count on the 55 EC votes from California now?


the EC has nothing to do with districts that may or may not have been gerrymandered in the constitutionally mandated redistricting that occurs after each census


if that was the case...this would have been opposite:


New York....out of 62 counties... Hillary won only 16..... trump took 46 counties.
of the 5 boroughs of NYC..Hillary lost Staten Island, she could not even carry the whole city


so blue new York should show a gerrymandered to red



look at Nevada...Hillary won the state (popular vote) and got the electoral delegates....but...out of 17 counties...Hillary won only 2....trump took 15 counties...if it was gerrymandered as you say, then trump would have won Nevada





look at Oregon ...Hillary won the state (popular vote) and got the electoral delegates....but...out of 36 counties...Hillary won only 8..... trump took 28 counties...if it was gerrymandered as you say, then trump would have won Oregon






look at Washington ...Hillary won the state (popular vote) and got the electoral delegates....but...out of 39 counties...Hillary won only 12..... trump took 27 counties...if it was gerrymandered as you say, then trump would have won Washington




look at Minnesota ...Hillary won the state (popular vote) and got the electoral delegates....but...out of 87 counties...Hillary won only 9..... trump took 78 counties...if it was gerrymandered as you say, then trump would have won Minnesota






look at VERY BLUE Maryland...Hillary won the state (popular vote) and got the electoral delegates.... but...out of 24 counties... Hillary won only 7..... trump took 17 counties...if it was gerrymandered as you say, then trump would have won Maryland
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Old 06-11-2019, 11:17 AM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
9,902 posts, read 8,063,496 times
Reputation: 4177
Quote:
Originally Posted by carterstamp View Post
The electoral college favors the GOP, because the GOP gerrymandered it that way.

Hypocritical? Try cleaning up the GOP first.
?? The states are the states. The borders predate any current pattern. It favors the GOP because it favors small states which are... mostly GOP.

Gerrymandering is for districts.
Which should be per se illegal at all levels.
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Old 06-11-2019, 11:29 AM
Status: "that should be 'righties'" (set 24 days ago)
 
1,835 posts, read 1,092,985 times
Reputation: 1537
...ahem..."President's are selected, not elected"...F.D.R.
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Old 06-11-2019, 11:40 AM
Status: "think locally, act yokelly." (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
3,227 posts, read 574,473 times
Reputation: 974
Quote:
Originally Posted by carterstamp View Post
The electoral college favors the GOP, because the GOP gerrymandered it that way.

Hypocritical? Try cleaning up the GOP first.
The EC system is not affected by gerrymandering. Gerrymandering affects the distribution of congressional districts within a state, but not the number of districts. Each state still has electoral votes equal to the number of house members, plus two senators.

Gerrymandering has no impact on presidential elections. None. And btw both parties use gerrymandering. See Maryland for a good example.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.a4f2c3723e44

Quote:
In 2016, Republican candidates won 37 percent of the statewide two-party vote for U.S. House seats. But because of the way Democrats drew district boundaries after the 2010 Census, that translated to just one of the state's eight House seats.
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Old 06-11-2019, 11:43 AM
Status: "think locally, act yokelly." (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
3,227 posts, read 574,473 times
Reputation: 974
props to OP for a brilliant post.

In the 'elections' thread on the EC, a poster said over and over (paraphrase) 'one person, one vote. Why is that so hard for Republicans and conservatives to understand?

But when applied to the D primaries, it appears to be very hard for Democrats and liberals to understand.
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