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Old 06-11-2019, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Divided Tribes of America
13,716 posts, read 5,527,190 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
It is not uncommon for non-observant Jews to show disdain for observant Jews. The only person who ever taunted me for keeping kosher was....a Jew who didn't keep kosher.
Interesting. I experienced a similar phenomenon in Christianity. I grew up in evangelical/ fundamentalist Christianity and the only people who attacked my religion (in person) were secular/ liberal Christians.
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Old 06-11-2019, 05:56 PM
 
15,300 posts, read 4,040,543 times
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Just for some numbers....

"Some polls, such as the Gallup World Poll in 2007 revealed that significant numbers of Israelis, 20 percent, would ideally, if they had the opportunity, move permanently to another country."

Among the youth:
"Almost half of Israeli teens aged 14–18 years old expressed a desire to live outside of Israel in 2007. 68 percent of teens believed that Israel's general situation is "not good."

Attitudes in Israel towards Jews who don't come...has changed a lot:
"Haifa University sociologist Oz Almog said in a recent interview: "Ask Israelis now what they think about Jews coming from countries where they aren't persecuted, like the U.S. and Britain, to live in Israel, and they'll say, 'Those who do are nuts.'"

My son went on "Birthright" twice...that's a program where you get to go to Isreal as a teen and "wined and dined" while you tour the sights with the hopes that maybe you will go to live there. He was turned off somewhat by the way they were kept insulated from the general population over there....it was VERY controlled and cloistered and he is anti-authoritarian like myself so it didn't impress him as something he would like to do.
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Old 06-11-2019, 06:00 PM
 
15,300 posts, read 4,040,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
Interesting. I experienced a similar phenomenon in Christianity. I grew up in evangelical/ fundamentalist Christianity and the only people who attacked my religion (in person) were secular/ liberal Christians.
Well, if you read the linked article you will see that it is the fundies who are marching down the liberal streets attacking those who wish to live their lives by the beat of their own drummer. Same deal.

It's not the liberals marching through the cloistered housing projects outside of town demanding that the Orthodox view Western Cinema. It's only the money and military thing (and Religion in Government) the Liberals and Secularists are angry about.....sending their sons and daughters to serve and die whilst the Orthodox study.

It's a longer story, but remember that many of the Orthodox and Hasidic sects were not Zionists nor were they big on Israel.
" It initially adopted a stance of disregard for the State of Israel, motivated by pragmatism"
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Old 06-11-2019, 06:18 PM
 
955 posts, read 375,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
^^^ Just what we need.....a secular Jew (although he does say he went to military school and attended church services) making fun of religious Jews. As if we don't have enough antisemites in the world, we have to have a JEW (!!) poking fun at observant Jews.

(And some of you think there's no such thing as a self-loathing Jew? Just look to the liberal, secular Jews like this one. The disdain is just dripping.)
Yes, there is some disdain for orthodox Jews who collect welfare benefits, avoid military service, and march in the streets trying to shame secular Jews. Is it really that different from the disdain that you regularly express for welfare recipients and liberals who impose their views on others?
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Old 06-11-2019, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
27,576 posts, read 17,653,386 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
I guess if I take you for 100% accurate in all your points, I support a conservative (read American Conservative Political) solution.




this one is super simple. the answer is to not give welfare to people capable of working but who refuse to work.


period. end of story.


the problem that may exist in Israel is the liberal bent their state takes where the social saftynet isn't a safety net at all. rather it is a way to avoid being what a person should be.




It is the OT (read jewish holy writ) that tells us we eat by the sweat of our brows.




the answer is as it almost always is. Reject the liberal/progressive approach. you wanna eat, go to work
Yep-seems pretty simple, doesn't it? We really should do the same here. I guess Israel has it a little better-at least these non-productive people are "studying".
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Old 06-11-2019, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
27,576 posts, read 17,653,386 times
Reputation: 15643
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Well, if you read the linked article you will see that it is the fundies who are marching down the liberal streets attacking those who wish to live their lives by the beat of their own drummer. Same deal.

It's not the liberals marching through the cloistered housing projects outside of town demanding that the Orthodox view Western Cinema. It's only the money and military thing (and Religion in Government) the Liberals and Secularists are angry about.....sending their sons and daughters to serve and die whilst the Orthodox study.

It's a longer story, but remember that many of the Orthodox and Hasidic sects were not Zionists nor were they big on Israel.
" It initially adopted a stance of disregard for the State of Israel, motivated by pragmatism"
Here we have Antifa doing the same thing, and in much of Europe it's Muslim immigrants.
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