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Old 06-12-2019, 01:45 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
19,824 posts, read 18,832,665 times
Reputation: 33721

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovecrowds View Post
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/...-other-nations

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bruceja.../#5083b38165f1

I wish they would come out with non-partisan numbers for the costs for their "Medicare for All" and tell the American people how high their taxes will have to go to pay this experiment.

The only way Medicare for all is possible is if obesity rates go down to the low-single digits, junk food is banned, vices are banned, they have strict formularities which means no expensive research and implementing long wait lists for ailments that aren't potential terminal.

There are biased numbers from liberal think-tanks that are laughably low because there is no way they can have a universal health-care program for 330 million plus people in a country that is collectively in extremely poor health where a majority of Americans basically eat a poisonous diet and where able-bodied people walk a fraction of that the average American did generations ago.

I personally am for Medicaid state block grants and keeping Medicare as is and just declining the reimbursement rates and shifting it onto commercial insurance.
To keep obesity rates down and junk food consumption minimized, we need to educate. Just like they did with smoking. Information all over the place the way they did with smoking. Free classes for people to take to learn how to eat right and to cook good, simple stuff.

There may be waiting lists for elective surgery OR you can pay extra and get your surgery right away. That's how it works in the UK--and it works well. If you need important surgery, it's right away.

Coverage would be for all Americans and it wouldn't depend on what kind of a job they manage to get. Employers would be happy too. We spend too much money on wars--put that tax money towards health care. (Medicaid is only for the poor, so how is that going to help most people?--in fact, it keeps people on welfare because if they get a job they risk losing their health insurance since few can hop right off welfare into a great job with benefits.)
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Upstate NY
35,425 posts, read 10,481,794 times
Reputation: 33451
What a crock of baloney!

Yesterday morning, socialist parasite Bernie Sanders was asked point-blank by Chris Wallace about the audacity of "big government" deciding that they know what's best for citizens, by imposing approved health care options while eliminating others.

As usual, he obfuscated and intentionally missed the point, flapping his gums about cost savings and universal coverage. Then he was so nonplused when Wallace followed up, asking that he respond to the question, he simply repeated the same script.

Sadly, even this effort by Chris Wallace was simply a "nudge," as it occurred at the END of the broadcast, and a relieved Bernie's bafflegab was allowed to stand. Again.

Those of you who are happy with your Medicare--YOU have the most to lose. Of course, the uninsured "want in," but what they--and YOU--will be getting, is government-prescribed Medicaid For All. Anyone who thinks that current Medicare beneficiaries won't be negatively impacted, is a fool. It's killed the Dems that seniors on Medicare were exempt from Obamacare regulations and, therefore, fines, so they're salivating over the certainty of their latest scheme allowing them to tap the rich, collective, resource of seniors' pockets--in order to spread the wealth, not only to uninsured Americans, but also to illegal aliens.

And, oh yeah...If you workers/retirees like your employer-sponsored health insurance, you won't be able to keep that, either.

You can make book on it.
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Upstate NY
35,425 posts, read 10,481,794 times
Reputation: 33451
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCMann2 View Post
I'd gladly have taxes taken directly out of my check every two weeks to never have to worry about co-pays, deductibles, fighting with insurance to get doctor recommended procedures, going bankrupt from medical debt, etc.

Wanna pay more to "skip the line" so to speak? Fine, but medical care should be free to every citizen regardless of ability to pay. I don't understand why people cling to such a clearly broken system when it can be done so much better

It's not "broken" according to the vast majority of Americans who are currently, and have always been, happy with their care, provider(s), and insurance.

And nothing is free. The government produces nothing, therefore the government won't be paying for it. Taxpayers will.
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Upstate NY
35,425 posts, read 10,481,794 times
Reputation: 33451
Quote:
Originally Posted by ottomobeale View Post
Terrible idea. Copays and deductibles are important gatekeepers from frivolous use. They simply should not be bankrupting.

Exactly. Just ask NY, where Medicaid costs ARE skyrocketing, and where the "co-pays" are a joke. Federal law prohibits the withholding of services and prescriptions to those on Medicaid, if they merely claim to be unable to pay the co-pay.
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Upstate NY
35,425 posts, read 10,481,794 times
Reputation: 33451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annandale_Man View Post
Everyone isn't worthy of unlimited resources to save their life. That is a fact.
Obama certainly thought that was true. Just give the elderly a painkiller, and forget that pacemaker or hip replacement!
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Old 06-17-2019, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Ohio
19,875 posts, read 14,221,081 times
Reputation: 16075
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovecrowds View Post
There are biased numbers from liberal think-tanks that are laughably low because there is no way they can have a universal health-care program for 330 million plus people in a country that is collectively in extremely poor health where a majority of Americans basically eat a poisonous diet and where able-bodied people walk a fraction of that the average American did generations ago.
There are liberal think-tanks that accurately portray the costs.

The Urban Institute is one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovecrowds View Post
I personally am for Medicaid state block grants and keeping Medicare as is and just declining the reimbursement rates and shifting it onto commercial insurance.
Then you're part of the problem, not the solution.

No one knows what the true cost of medical care is, because you have had monopolies for 70+ years who illegally collude to illegally fix the prices of medical care far above market rates.

Your governments, specifically your State governments, created those monopolies and continue to support them.

Liberals rail against oil monopolies, but when it comes to medical care monopolies, the gutless wonders slink off under a rock to hide, not having the courage to show their faces.

Medicare reimbursement rates are 40% less than what the hospital monopolies deceptively claim is the true cost.

That 40% loss is shifted to private insurance to make up the difference.

The hospital monopolies do that by over-billing insured patients to cover their alleged losses.

If you want to see that, the best place to look is tort law, specifically wrongful injury/death.

Medical costs are a large part of wrongful injury/death claims.

I'll give you an actual real world example: Wills v Foster 229 Ill. 2d 393 (2008)

The plaintiff owed $80,163 in medical bills but the hospital accepted $19,005 in full satisfaction.

The issue before the court involved the collateral source rule and whether defendant owed $80,163 or $19,005 or the difference, but that's not the issue here.

The issue is the hospital accepted $19,005 in full satisfaction for charges of $80,163.

Why do you think that is?

Because it never cost $80,163.

The actual cost was probably $12,000 and $19,000 is the actual cost plus $7,000 in profit.

Why do you want a healthcare system like that?

Anyone. Please. Extol for us the virtues and benefits of such a system.

We want to know. Make us believe.

You can end this nonsense by having the States repeal the laws granting hospitals monopoly status and then pursue anti-trust actions against hospitals.

If the States are reluctant, Congress can force the States by withholding Medicaid funds until the States comply.

That would drop the cost of medical care by 30%-60% over-night.

And, that would drop the cost of health insurance 30%-60% over-night, because health insurance is based entirely on the cost of medical care.

Liberals keep claiming they want a system like Europe.

Okay, let's do that. Let's adopt Swiss laws and modify them for the US. The Swiss political subdivision is cantons, which are equivalent to counties in the US. That wouldn't work, but Metropolitan Statistical Areas as defined by the US Census Bureau would, so only one owner/operator per MSA.

That means someone like Mercy Health would have to sell or transfer ownership of five of their six hospitals to another party, to encourage competition.

And, no, the Free Market is not dialing for hospitals whilst having a heart attack. Any imbecile with an IQ greater than 20 will have already chosen the best medical providers for them during annual enrollment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCMann2 View Post
I'd gladly have taxes taken directly out of my check every two weeks to never have to worry about co-pays, deductibles, fighting with insurance to get doctor recommended procedures, going bankrupt from medical debt, etc.
It'd be every week, and the cost would be such you'd have to worry about buying food, paying rent/mortgage, paying the car note, paying car insurance and paying other bills.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazee Cat Lady View Post
It can be done so much better, for so much less,with so much better results.
Not the way your current system is structured.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZUMAN View Post
And you think the government is going to improve the delivery of good healthcare. So funny.
That is amusing.

The Hospital Model is the absolute worst method of healthcare delivery.

That's why Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Romania, Poland, France, Belgium, the Netherlands and other Euro-States abandoned it decades ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
That's not how it works in Canada
Nobody gives a damn how it works in Canada.

When the US population drops from 320 Million to 30 Million, do let us know, because then we'll be like Canada.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
Ridiculous strawman argument.

You don't need those other things to actually live and continue to be productive
Right. No one needs food or water.
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Old 06-17-2019, 12:24 PM
 
4,490 posts, read 833,769 times
Reputation: 1855
Liquidate Trump towers and that should more then pay for years of care.
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Old 06-17-2019, 12:30 PM
 
15,105 posts, read 3,993,514 times
Reputation: 10938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delahanty View Post
It's not "broken" according to the vast majority of Americans who are currently, and have always been, happy with their care, provider(s), and insurance.

And nothing is free. The government produces nothing, therefore the government won't be paying for it. Taxpayers will.
Let me translate for you - and your words may mean something else that the vast majority of Americans DO NOT agree with.


"The Vast Majority of Americans are happy with the government currently paying 2/3rd of ALL health care costs out of deficit and debt - and therefore indenting future generations and ruining our economy just so they can't SEE THE REAL COST of health care"....

Or, to put it really simply "A Poll of Americans shows that when you offer them 7K each FREE, most will take the money and approve of it".

That's all you are saying. It would be broken if they had to pay anywhere near the real cost, but since that cost is paid by the 20+ Trillion of debt we are adding to, deficit and inflated costs for those who actually pay (very few), they are "happy with it".

THINK.
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Old 06-17-2019, 12:33 PM
 
15,105 posts, read 3,993,514 times
Reputation: 10938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delahanty View Post
Obama certainly thought that was true. Just give the elderly a painkiller, and forget that pacemaker or hip replacement!
Here's a decent policy. If someone needs that $50K hip replacement and has 1.5 Million in the bank and in home equity, maybe they should pay a piece of it, eh?

Can we agree on that?

No health care system can deal with spending 100's of thousands to replace parts in 90 year olds....that's simple fact. There is a reason women and children get into the lifeboats.

In the compromise of life, if you haven't lived most of it by 90 you aren't likely to get much happiness afterwards. Most people I know of that age think the same way.......
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Old 06-17-2019, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Richmond,VA
3,211 posts, read 2,081,175 times
Reputation: 2347
Quote:
Originally Posted by what'd i miss View Post
Liquidate Trump towers and that should more then pay for years of care.

Then why can't we just raid the Clinton Foundation Fund?
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