U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-17-2019, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Divided Tribes of America
13,756 posts, read 5,545,584 times
Reputation: 5405

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Why not just have every aspect of life be "free"? Why stop at the medical profession? Think about whatever task you spend the hours of your life doing in trade for the capital you use to finance your life, and ask yourself why that service shouldn't be done for free. Why should your profession/service/task/etc not be free for all? Why should someone needing your services be forced to pay for those services when he/she may not be able to afford it?

Free everything. It's the only fair way to do things.
And yet you are happy with free evil socialist police, free evil socialist roads, free evil socialist schools, and free evil socialist military protection.

If you want to get rid of free evil socialist stuff, you’d better get busy destroying the socialist menace that already exists. Then we can all get to the libertarian / Republican utopia where I have to pay out of pocket for private police, private roads, private schools, and private mercenary armies.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-17-2019, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Houston
1,654 posts, read 577,969 times
Reputation: 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovecrowds View Post
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/...-other-nations

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bruceja.../#5083b38165f1

I wish they would come out with non-partisan numbers for the costs for their "Medicare for All" and tell the American people how high their taxes will have to go to pay this experiment.

The only way Medicare for all is possible is if obesity rates go down to the low-single digits, junk food is banned, vices are banned, they have strict formularities which means no expensive research and implementing long wait lists for ailments that aren't potential terminal.

There are biased numbers from liberal think-tanks that are laughably low because there is no way they can have a universal health-care program for 330 million plus people in a country that is collectively in extremely poor health where a majority of Americans basically eat a poisonous diet and where able-bodied people walk a fraction of that the average American did generations ago.

I personally am for Medicaid state block grants and keeping Medicare as is and just declining the reimbursement rates and shifting it onto commercial insurance.
Unless they have a good way of selling this, I think that it would run a huge risk of alienating the 65+ crowd simply they would view it as something that would be taken away from them to benefit many people who have not or NEVER paid into the entitlement scheme their entire lives as they have. If Dems have the ridiculous idea of covering illegals like Gov Newsom, it would blow up in the Dem's faces. The ONLY way that I could think to see this if Dems described it as a separate risk pool that is in no way connected to the present Medicare scheme. Even then, there would be skeptics.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-17-2019, 03:31 PM
 
32,517 posts, read 26,406,003 times
Reputation: 19170
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCMann2 View Post
I'd gladly have taxes taken directly out of my check every two weeks to never have to worry about co-pays, deductibles, fighting with insurance to get doctor recommended procedures, going bankrupt from medical debt, etc.

Wanna pay more to "skip the line" so to speak? Fine, but medical care should be free to every citizen regardless of ability to pay. I don't understand why people cling to such a clearly broken system when it can be done so much better

just because co pays and deductibles would be eliminated doesnt mean that every health care service will be available to everyone. all it means is that instead of fighting a private insurance company to get certain procedures done, you will have to fight the government to get those procedures done. and trust me it is harder fighting the government than a private insurance company.



in fact the government run health care, medicare, medicaid, VA, etc. all have HIGHER procedure rejection rates, and higher drug rejection rates than private companies do. and if we go to single payer government run health care, it will just get worse.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-17-2019, 06:35 PM
Status: "Defeat the "Squad"!!" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Suburban Dallas
46,984 posts, read 37,115,037 times
Reputation: 28384
You still need options. That's why the free market system still works. You do not need big government to shove their control over you down your throats. Remember the disaster ObamaCare used to be?? This latest Dem ploy won't be any different.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-17-2019, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Houston
22,597 posts, read 11,630,834 times
Reputation: 9147
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCMann2 View Post
I'd gladly have taxes taken directly out of my check every two weeks to never have to worry about co-pays, deductibles, fighting with insurance to get doctor recommended procedures, going bankrupt from medical debt, etc.

Wanna pay more to "skip the line" so to speak? Fine, but medical care should be free to every citizen regardless of ability to pay. I don't understand why people cling to such a clearly broken system when it can be done so much better
I had to fight the government to get doctor recommended treatment for my my Dad who was on Medicare. I lost. Dad died.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-17-2019, 06:53 PM
 
3,479 posts, read 678,208 times
Reputation: 2462
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
I had to fight the government to get doctor recommended treatment for my my Dad who was on Medicare. I lost. Dad died.
I'm so sorry. That's heartbreaking.

If the Democrats win, it will only get worse for the 65+ crowd as rationing ramps up on the elderly. Imagine how people in their early 60s feel, on the cusp of Medicare after paying in for 40 years, only to have Medicare resources diverted to covering everyone else (if the liberals win).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-17-2019, 06:59 PM
Status: "¯\_(ツ)_/¯" (set 25 days ago)
 
11,394 posts, read 5,978,653 times
Reputation: 3609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
And yet you are happy with free evil socialist police, free evil socialist roads, free evil socialist schools, and free evil socialist military protection.

If you want to get rid of free evil socialist stuff, you’d better get busy destroying the socialist menace that already exists. Then we can all get to the libertarian / Republican utopia where I have to pay out of pocket for private police, private roads, private schools, and private mercenary armies.
Our infrastructure is rated a D+ by the American Association of Civil Engineers. Call me crazy but I think private industry could do a hell of a lot better than that.

https://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/

A Grade of D is defined as: (emphasis my own)
POOR, AT RISK
The infrastructure is in poor to fair condition and mostly below standard, with many elements approaching the end of their service life. A large portion of the system exhibits significant deterioration. Condition and capacity are of serious concern with strong risk of failure.

So we are a slight hair above that due to the + designation, great. Well done with our federal tax dollars.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Our schools are pretty bad:
https://www.undispatch.com/here-is-h...-in-education/

There are only 5 OECD countries that are worse than the US through the equivalent of HS education, meanwhile 35 countries are better than the us. We also tend to spend more per student than most of those countries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Our police are great at killing people, but when not busy killing them, they are great at locking them up, in fact they are the worlds best at it:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/28/us/ma...cts/index.html
Quote:
Year after year, the United States beats out much larger countries -- India, China -- and more totalitarian ones --Russia and the Philippines -- for the distinction of having the highest incarceration rate in the world.

According to a 2018 report from the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), nearly 2.2 million adults were held in America's prisons and jails at the end of 2016. That means for every 100,000 people residing in the United States, approximately 655 of them were behind bars.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Meanwhile, the Military is actually a constitutionally protected part of what our federal government is supposed to provide, so its out of scope for the point you were trying to make.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So pretty much all of the viable examples you gave are miserable failures in the hands of our federal government using our hard earned tax dollars. Should they be completely privatized? Maybe not, but is our current model working? Absolutely not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-17-2019, 08:01 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 29 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,038 posts, read 102,742,261 times
Reputation: 33084
Quote:
Originally Posted by ottomobeale View Post
Terrible idea. Copays and deductibles are important gatekeepers from frivolous use. They simply should not be bankrupting.
What evidence do you have that anyone with no copays/deductibles now (there are some policies) uses health care "frivolously"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
How about we have a uniform cost for Home Owners Insurance, spreading the risk among those who do everything to keep their properties safe and those who do their own unsafe wiring, never do maintenance and those that build 2 feet from the ocean?
Or auto insurance never taking into account for your safe driving record.Do you want to share in those liabilities on a massive scale (which you already do to some extent)
It is, unfortunately,one aspect of human nature that many will decide that as long as they are not personally,individually responsible they are happy to let others it
Human bodies don't work the same way as houses and cars. You can do everything "right" and still get cancer and various other diseases/conditions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pete98146 View Post
Not to mention without co pays and deductibles good luck getting a doctors appt...


"Hello medical clinic, I need to make an appointment with the doctor. I think I broke my arm"


"Ok sir, we have an opening in 2 and half months. Does that work for you?"
Why would that happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
To keep obesity rates down and junk food consumption minimized, we need to educate. Just like they did with smoking. Information all over the place the way they did with smoking. Free classes for people to take to learn how to eat right and to cook good, simple stuff.

There may be waiting lists for elective surgery OR you can pay extra and get your surgery right away. That's how it works in the UK--and it works well. If you need important surgery, it's right away.

Coverage would be for all Americans and it wouldn't depend on what kind of a job they manage to get. Employers would be happy too. We spend too much money on wars--put that tax money towards health care. (Medicaid is only for the poor, so how is that going to help most people?--in fact, it keeps people on welfare because if they get a job they risk losing their health insurance since few can hop right off welfare into a great job with benefits.)
If all it took was education to eliminate obesity, there would not be an obesity problem in the US. Many systems require payment by employers even if insurance isn't tied to employment per se, e.g. Germany's.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-17-2019, 08:06 PM
Status: "¯\_(ツ)_/¯" (set 25 days ago)
 
11,394 posts, read 5,978,653 times
Reputation: 3609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post


Human bodies don't work the same way as houses and cars. You can do everything "right" and still get cancer and various other diseases/conditions.


You misunderstand houses and cars, or have just had very good luck. I've had 2 cars where I did "everything right" and they still became unusable and unfixable without major money being thrown at them, not covered by warranties or insurance.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-17-2019, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD
3,334 posts, read 2,311,975 times
Reputation: 4762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
Yes, but after Obamacare illegally became law we saw our Copays, and Deductibles both double and often TRIPLE. Out of pocket healthcare costs skyrocketed. The problem with universal healthcare is they will not be able to contain costs are there is no incentive to do so, and no market forces at work to push to be efficient. They will just raise the taxes constantly, and RATION CARE to fund what will just become another slush fund.
Exactly!! It's not like the health insurance cartels decided to use ACA as an excuse to jack up rates and deductibles, while being more stingy on care

Good old american greed can never be stopped!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top