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Old 06-13-2019, 09:09 AM
 
3,316 posts, read 640,659 times
Reputation: 2287

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
I find the bakery owner's rationale & scenario very similar to the Heart of Atlanta Motel, Inc. owner's lame rationale:



https://civil.laws.com/civil-rights-act-of-1964
It's not exactly the same.

The same would be if the baker refuses to sell cakes to gay people. He just doesn't want to be a participant in a gay marriage ceremony. I say.....his business, his decision.
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:24 AM
 
9,524 posts, read 4,864,327 times
Reputation: 3870
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
You have no idea what you're talking about at all. It isn't even worth trying to reply to this post meaningfully, if you think the government should not be able to legally protect races from baseless discrimination and replied the bolded to my point about the EPC and Civil Rights Act in the context of racial discrimination. Your reply doesn't even make sense.
No sensible person thinks and no court has ruled that laws prohibiting discrimination are unconstitutional. The issue in This case and others like it is because the writers of the Constitution thought the free exercise of religion and freedom of speech deserved to be protected. All of these baker, florist, hotel, photographer cases concern whether the law forcing the owner to sell a service for a same sex marriage violates the owner's Constitutional rights.


People who don't want religious beliefs to have more consideration than any other beliefs should take it up with those dopes who wrote the Constitution, push for a Constitutional Convention, or try to amend the First Amendment.
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:29 AM
Status: "I'm an Unmherkun puppy-kicking Socialist" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Dallas, TX
4,032 posts, read 2,115,440 times
Reputation: 3778
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
I think I understand what you're saying here however I don't think you should assume that some of the folks here agree with the provisions of the various Civil Rights Acts. Some folks, usually self-identified libertarians, do not agree with Civil Rights Act of 1964. They also tend to believe race-based slavery would've just 'magically gone away' without any government actions on behalf of the American People. They are simply delusional.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
because it did elsewhere and where it existed for so long (or at all) was thanks to the very government you hold in such high esteem. We can see consistency isnt your strong suit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil75230 View Post
It was either that or way back in the 1780s concede that the northern and southern colonies should simply form two separate nations from the start. In which case the, well, let's call this "Confederacy-from-the-start" would be Brazil with seasons. The Third World starting at the Potomac and Ohio Rivers. And don't think for one minute the end of slavery would mean the end of oppression. Our own history proves that. Humans simply will do bad things to others without a higher authority's intervention. Sorry to bust your bubble, but business and scientific excellence are two things, rule-making excellence is quite another and moral/ethical excellence is still another thing entirely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Because the north and south would never trade and thus enrich each other? We can agree slavery is abhorrent then and now (as we are), but the technology of the day was going to abolish slavery without Lincoln murdering 600k people (give or take a 100k), the destruction of scarce resources, the forced conscription of peaceful peoples and the jailing of dissidents. Not to forget your beloved civil war really wasn't really about the abolishing slavery now was it?
That slipping feeling is the moral high ground disappearing from under your feet.
I'm still feeling on firm ground, there. But thank you for your concern.

Trading and enriching was not going to end slavery, and the technology for cotton farming (mechanical cotton pickers) wouldn't appear until the 1950s - almost a century later (I grew up on a cotton farm, so I know). Even after slavery, there was still the ideology of White Supremacy, backed up with pseudo-science. The point is that people as a whole aren't just going to do something good for others unless they see gain for themselves - especially in economic or power/social prestige terms. Sorry, but humans will find other things to squabble about besides economics.
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
23,290 posts, read 11,525,672 times
Reputation: 4315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
So once again Masterpiece Cakes in in the news because they're being sued AGAIN by liberals. This time they're refusing to make a "gender transition cake". I mean wth is that, but anyway. THey already won in the Supreme Court against a gay couple who tried to force them to make a gay wedding cake.
Actually, what the Supreme court said was that he didnt get his due process, they didnt support the claim that he had any freedom to refuse to make the cake.


Quote:
So what if I were to go to a bakery I know is owned by a liberal Democrat and ask that they make me a cake for July 4th, and on this cake I want them to have "Trump 2020", #MAGA, and Psalm 33:12 "Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord."

Or what if I were to go to an Arab Muslim owned bakery and ask for a cake with the Israeli flag on it and a quote from the Bible saying that God will bless those who bless Israel and will curse those who curse Israel?

Should I have the right to have these cakes made? Do liberals believe this athiest, liberal or Muslim should be allowed to refuse my request?

I actually kinda want to do Example #1 on July 4 this year it would be fun.
I dont see any of those things as inherently negative, so its fine. However I would question your beliefs if you did choose to go a a leftist or gay baker to make that point. By which I mean, are you trying to say #MAGA is anti LGBT ? or that Israel is Anti Muslim.

If those are your own personal interpretations, then the baker has every right to Refuse YOU because your intent is then taken into account.

No different than gun shop owners being able to refuse a sale because of the intent of the buyer. Or the grocer who doesnt sell kids eggs or toilet paper on Halloween. Your intent here is to use those cakes in a negative fashion.
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
20,331 posts, read 10,437,970 times
Reputation: 7964
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
It's not exactly the same.

The same would be if the baker refuses to sell cakes to gay people. He just doesn't want to be a participant in a gay marriage ceremony. I say.....his business, his decision.
A baker is not a participant in a marriage ceremony, they are participants in a commercial transaction.
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:18 AM
 
12,100 posts, read 6,680,435 times
Reputation: 12950
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
A baker is not a participant in a marriage ceremony, they are participants in a commercial transaction.
When the baker creates an item specifically for that event, yes it is participating in the event and contributing to the celebration.
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
20,331 posts, read 10,437,970 times
Reputation: 7964
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane View Post
When the baker creates an item specifically for that event, yes it is participating in the event and celebration.
The baker that made my birthday cake did not participate in, attend, or was involved in my party in any way other than the commercial transaction of selling me a cake.
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:35 AM
 
12,100 posts, read 6,680,435 times
Reputation: 12950
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
The baker that made my birthday cake did not participate in, attend, or was involved in my party in any way other than the commercial transaction of selling me a cake.
No one said the baker has to attend to participate. If you had a custom birthday cake made then the baker participated.

A wedding is a major life event and a wedding cake is often a centerpiece at the reception. Otherwise, just buy something off the shelf. Wedding planners, florists, photographers, cake designers, all part of making the event come together to be a beautiful celebration. They should be enthusiastic with their creations for all the events they do, not forced into it.
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Texas
26,715 posts, read 11,202,975 times
Reputation: 6145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobdreamz View Post
Christians shouldn't be using their religion to justify their bigotry.
Bobdreamz shouldn't be using deceit to justify his bigotry. It should always be about property rights. But slaves of government aren't comfortable unless everyone else is a slave.
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Texas
26,715 posts, read 11,202,975 times
Reputation: 6145
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqueg View Post
Well, I don't own a bakery. But I am a liberal, and my reaction would be "I'm in the business of selling cakes, so sure, I'll sell you what you want". As long as your money's green, why on earth should I care?

It would be no weirder than those kitty litter box cakes that were so popular a few years back, and AFAIK, bakeries were perfectly happy to make those.

IOW, no force required.
It's not about you and Little Princess Cupcakes.

It's about forcing others to bow to your will when no ones rights have been violated.

As you first said, the FREE market can decide what's best.
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