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Old 06-15-2019, 09:39 AM
Status: "Repub's IVF ruling is anti-family and anti-America" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: Dallas, TX
5,784 posts, read 3,568,605 times
Reputation: 5686

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
It seems as though libs have regressed to a state self loathing, in that they routinely express anger and hate over themselves.
You're assuming liberals ARE, in fact, self loathing. This is an assertion without proof. What qualifies you, who presumably doesn't spend a lot of time with liberals, to know what they think?


Quote:
Witness the new lib obsessions:


1. hating everything associated with being white- "white priveledge" and "white supremacy" are two of the favorite liberal sound bytes today.
That's because the rise of the alt-right thanks to Trump IS a big concern. If you don't squash degradation of out-groups from the start, then they'll just keep growing and growing in influence.

Quote:
2. hating males and "toxic masculinity"
You're linking two unrelated things, or at best only spuriously related. Males in general and "toxic masculinity". No liberal I know hates males in general. "Toxic masculinity" is when males are forced to meet traditional idealized images of what a male is or be castigated as subhuman (be strong, be thick-skinned, have high social dominance skills in general, be attractive to women [if not necessarily get laid a lot, extra points here], disdain anybody who doesn't meet traditional archetypes for their sex regardless of what their gender is). Thus is defined "toxic masculinity". Male pressure to be all those things is simply unjust and insults individuality. People are individuals, not sex and/or gender. What is it to you if a male doesn't measure up on the "manhood scale". Next.

Oops, I forgot. <takes my "man card", and burns it like 60s hippies burned draft cards>

NOW we can go on.

Quote:
3. hating Americans and American exceptionalism (they are Americans, whether they like it or not)
Acknowledging and owning up to our shortcomings is hating ourselves? That's suspiciously like somebody acknowledging and owning up to their own personal shortcomings is self-hatred; the implication here is that a REAL self-respecting, strong backboned person NEVER admits their shortcomings, or at the very least trivialize their shortcomings ("Yeah, but it's not that bad"). That attitude frankly confuses self-respect with narcissism - on both personal and national levels.

Quote:
4. hating capitalists (got news for you)
Youch, you sure know how miss picking the winners, don't you: 0 for 4 here. I hope for your sake you never go to casinos a lot, or even do poker games at a friend's house. But anywho, here it goes...

Liberals support the idea of private ownership of wealth-generating properties AND the right to keep all business income after taxes, interests, and debts for their own personal use. It's what generates the taxes that lets our nation be able to afford to spend money on things that benefit all people in some way.

We just don't like paying workers sub-living wages, unsafe work conditions due to owners being too cheap to pay extra for workers' safety, 8 year olds working in coal mines, unsafe designs in buildings (Triangle Shirt Waist Fire, 1911, f.ex.), unsafe children's toys and automobiles, bosses denying leave time to care for sick relatives, refusing to hire and/or firing people due to the diversity categories we all know, factories belching crap into the air and water and onto the ground, leaded gasoline, low fuel-efficiency vehicles when there's not need for them to use that much gasoline and thereby putting CO2 into the atmosphere...

should I go on?

So liberals are all fine and dandy with personal and corporate profits, as long as they don't come at the expense of essential employee or social well-being. But if you think Gilded Age America was the height of American greatness, then you go right ahead and think that while I choose to live in the 21st century.


Quote:
5. hating those who produce CO2
I think you also forgot hating those who produce CFCs, SO2, and a whole bunch of other environmentally threatening stuff . CO2 does cause global warming. Humans are very much responsible for global warming because we pump CO2 into the atmosphere.


Quote:
Lots of hate and self loathing going around. One cannot function as a normal human being and hate yourself, as it is all consuming and creates a mal-adjusted individual. Perhaps as conservatives, we should seek a program to buy a lib a puppy or a kitten to cheer them up and start to curb the self loathing.


How many times do we hear even lib politicians "apologize" for being white or a white male? What the heck is going on in their heads?
Self-loathing people (even real, actual ones) deserve love, care, and a listening sympathetic ear. Not derision and castigation - especially if they don't do anything to hurt, harm, and degrade others. Anybody who thinks actually broken spirited people with destroyed self-respect deserves disdain or emotional abuse is simply not being a very bright person - they're simply not tuned into the deeper reality of how human nature (not the dog-eat-dog animalistic type) works. But back to the topic at hand.

"Hate", you seem to define, as "any problem that you see society has". In which case, I see a lot of conservative hate over removing Confederata and Native American mascots, to name two. And calls for change is not self loathing - quite the opposite in fact. It means we respect ourselves and our society so much that we work to correct long-standing errors. Still, I'm sure quite a number of liberals will love to have new puppies and kittens - though I'm not in the market for one myself.

You're confusing apologies for past actions with apologies for being part of the group committing the actions. We simply recognize that WASP America, like every other people in the world, has their faults. At least liberals are mature enough to accept we or our ancestors did bad things and work to heal the divisions caused by our shabby actions.

You haven't gotten one single thing right about what liberals are all about. Lets see if you can try again.
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Old 06-15-2019, 10:18 AM
 
4,445 posts, read 1,436,811 times
Reputation: 3609
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
You remember "manifest destiny" from history class?

It's the result of the successful execution of that ideology.

The belief that America is an exceptional country, with exceptional people and an exceptional system of government.
Good point Bob!
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Old 06-15-2019, 10:24 AM
 
20,956 posts, read 8,587,397 times
Reputation: 14048
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
It seems as though libs have regressed to a state self loathing, in that they routinely express anger and hate over themselves.


Witness the new lib obsessions:


1. hating everything associated with being white- "white priveledge" and "white supremacy" are two of the favorite liberal sound bytes today.


How many times do we hear even lib politicians "apologize" for being white or a white male? What the heck is going on in their heads?
Interesting - I've been a liberal (or radical) for 50 years and never once thought of most of your rants. Now, certain things are clear - like the fact that "business people" are often happy to fleece or poison others for a few extra bucks. But the only reason that is "white" is that most wealth in the USA was that way...BY LAW AND CUSTOM for 100's of years.

My biggest heroes in all of history are mostly "white men".....so your point makes no sense.

You seem unable to differentiate between the "white man" who is a product of the Enlightenment and progressive (Lincoln, Hamilton, Jefferson, FDR and many others) and the "white man" who was illiterate and didn't care to be anything more than a turpentine tree tapper. The later is often the line that became the KKK and White Supremists that we "libs" abhor. We don't dislike the people....just the ideals which are long since dated.

Hopefully an educated man like you can understand such differences. Surely "anti-capitalist" liberals like Alexander Graham Bell (who didn't care to make a dime off his stuff) and Joseph Salk are worthy of all of our praise despite their views about the silly people who chase only money.

My thinking is that people like you create this imaginary world that they surround themselves with...sort of a real world comedy. Out of 100's of millions of people, you can certainly find people to laugh at or shake your head at.

But that is not the real world in terms of political POV.
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Old 06-15-2019, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Pacific Beach/San Diego
4,750 posts, read 3,547,810 times
Reputation: 4614
Personally, I only hate Trumptards.
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Old 06-15-2019, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Flyover Country
26,212 posts, read 19,428,183 times
Reputation: 21673
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
It seems as though libs have regressed to a state self loathing, in that they routinely express anger and hate over themselves.

It's a shame you don't understand irony.
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Old 06-15-2019, 11:25 AM
 
Location: San Jose
2,594 posts, read 1,228,965 times
Reputation: 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
1. hating everything associated with being white- "white priveledge" and "white supremacy" are two of the favorite liberal sound bytes today.

I can't speak for all liberals but as a leftist I don't hate "white people" I hate the concept of "whiteness" as a form of identity. Its completely illogical as a basis for an identity and functionally only exists as a means of racial exclusion. Compare the Irish identity to the White identity. Saying "I'm Irish" means you come from a specific place, have a specific religion, language, heritage, culture, etc. None of this applies to being "white". There is no common heritage, religion, language, culture, ancestry or anything else. The only thing being "white" means is that your not black, or Asian or Latino. Whiteness is thus a anti-identity.

Every year millions of Americans take part in a celebration of Irishness...St Patty's Day. There are festivals and parades celebrating the heritage and culture for German Americans, Italian Americans, Greeks, Swedish Americans, etc. Nobody has an issue with these events because they are a celebration of a real identity.
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Old 06-15-2019, 11:30 AM
 
12,253 posts, read 6,411,891 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
American exceptionalism is the fact that the best political system in the history of man was born here and that most of the innovation that has benefitted the planet has come from the US.


If the US was not exceptional, it would simply be a Brazil or Mongolia. America provides the environment for free people to excel, and they do.


The simple fact of your posing what you presume to be a rhetorical question reinforces my premise- libs do not like themselves and thus live with an aura of negativity and defeatism. We saw it manifest on a grand scale with Carter and Obama- the champions of believing that there is nothing special about America and that our best days are behind us. If libs were in charge, that may be true.
The best political system in the history of man....that no other country wants. I believed stuff like that at one time but by the age of 12 I realized we`re just one of the dozens of decent countries on this planet. Some places have better healthcare and education than we do but when it comes to starting wars we`re the undisputed champs. Exceptional indeed.
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Old 06-15-2019, 11:35 AM
 
46,823 posts, read 25,743,836 times
Reputation: 29302
What conservatives call self-loathing is actually introspection. But as conservatives hate the idea of looking critically at themselves, the confusion is understandable.
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Old 06-15-2019, 11:38 AM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,383,770 times
Reputation: 16962
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncguy50 View Post
Good point Bob!
Yeah, "Manifest Destiny" was so successful an idea dreamed up in 1835 that it was already stopped in it's tracks fully 23 years before it was even coined as a phrase. But, dream on.
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Old 06-15-2019, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Eureka CA
9,519 posts, read 14,666,853 times
Reputation: 15067
WHAT "self-loathing"? None here. You're projecting!
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