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Old 06-15-2019, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Wartrace,TN
5,547 posts, read 8,882,501 times
Reputation: 11053

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Nonsense. If you should choose armed resistance you may well end up with armed police. But standarly the fight is all on paper or the electronic equivalent.

Unless you resort to armed force the state does not either.
So when they send you to jail is it "all on paper" or do they send an armed deputy to collect you? Armed deputy executing a court order = "gun to the head".
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Old 06-15-2019, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Madison, WI
4,809 posts, read 1,629,189 times
Reputation: 1056
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Nonsense. If you should choose armed resistance you may well end up with armed police. But standarly the fight is all on paper or the electronic equivalent.

Unless you resort to armed force the state does not either.
But that still makes our point.

If a common thief demands your wallet, you might just give them the wallet to avoid violence. Just because you choose to avoid the scenario where they pull a weapon on you doesn't mean you're giving them your wallet by choice.

You're only giving them your wallet because you're afraid of what they'll do to you, not because it's a voluntary exchange. That's our objection to taxes.
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Old 06-15-2019, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
12,776 posts, read 4,830,944 times
Reputation: 5675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wartrace View Post
Really?
People don't pay capital gains tax?
Property tax?
Sales tax?
Gas tax?
Wheel tax? (registration for vehicles)

Change that to "If you are breathing you have consented".

Seems like the only people "living the dream" are those that are net users of taxpayer funds.
There is no requirement that you pay other than certain federal taxes on leaving.

And in fact there is nothing that keeps one from leaving even if you owe taxes. You simply cannot come back.

The payments deal with surrendering US citizenship not leaving the country.
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Old 06-15-2019, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Wartrace,TN
5,547 posts, read 8,882,501 times
Reputation: 11053
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
There is no requirement that you pay other than certain federal taxes on leaving.

And in fact there is nothing that keeps one from leaving even if you owe taxes. You simply cannot come back.

The payments deal with surrendering US citizenship not leaving the country.
That was not the argument you made. You never once mentioned leaving the country; you wrote that you don't need to pay taxes if you don't work. That is a false statement.

"There is no requirement that you pay other than certain federal taxes on leaving" So you do in fact HAVE TO PAY TAXES.
"The payments deal with surrendering US citizenship not leaving the country." You can call it anything you wish but it is a tax. When government requires a payment it is TAX.
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Old 06-15-2019, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
12,776 posts, read 4,830,944 times
Reputation: 5675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wartrace View Post
That was not the argument you made. You never once mentioned leaving the country; you wrote that you don't need to pay taxes if you don't work. That is a false statement.

"There is no requirement that you pay other than certain federal taxes on leaving" So you do in fact HAVE TO PAY TAXES.
"The payments deal with surrendering US citizenship not leaving the country." You can call it anything you wish but it is a tax. When government requires a payment it is TAX.
Nonsense. The issue is can you quit the US without paying money. The answer is yes.

and I will certainly agree that under unusual circumstances you might owe taxes that you need to pay to surrender your US citizenship. But you can always leave. There are no gates on the Canadian or Mexican border. Just walk or drive across. You are out.
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Old 06-15-2019, 06:50 PM
 
18,796 posts, read 9,612,025 times
Reputation: 5277
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Nonsense. The issue is can you quit the US without paying money. The answer is yes.

and I will certainly agree that under unusual circumstances you might owe taxes that you need to pay to surrender your US citizenship. But you can always leave. There are no gates on the Canadian or Mexican border. Just walk or drive across. You are out.
If you want to legally surrender your citizenship, you have to pay all taxes owned.

Your argument is telling us to become a fugitive.
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Old 06-15-2019, 06:58 PM
 
Location: the Sticks
8,515 posts, read 2,456,235 times
Reputation: 4484
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Try to leave without paying your taxes.
LOL Live abroad and not pay your taxes.......... See what happens..
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Old 06-15-2019, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
12,776 posts, read 4,830,944 times
Reputation: 5675
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
If you want to legally surrender your citizenship, you have to pay all taxes owned.

Your argument is telling us to become a fugitive.
that is what I said a couple of posts back. If you leave owing money you may get a hard time if you return. So...and if you chose to leave why would your US status be of concern?
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Old 06-15-2019, 07:09 PM
 
Location: the Sticks
8,515 posts, read 2,456,235 times
Reputation: 4484
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
that is what I said a couple of posts back. If you leave owing money you may get a hard time if you return. So...and if you chose to leave why would your US status be of concern?
It could be because you may have to come back, but worse still if you leave owing taxes, your VISA to your new country may well be revoked. The long reach of Uncle Sam.

Then on top of that, if you have a bank acct. in your new home, as a US citizen you are required, by the bank, to fill out paper work that reports to the US government that you have money abroad. Yep The US government can then snatch that money too.

So no real gun to the head, but it's like that song said:
Put your hands in the air
You better take care
Your money or your life
Don't think twice
Gonna get what they need
It ain't nothing but greed
Better watch what you do
Or you'll know that you're through
What would you do
If they were looking at you?
What would you say
If they were walking your way?

The IRS the gang that all the other Feds are afraid of.
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Old 06-15-2019, 07:15 PM
 
Location: San Diego
26 posts, read 8,630 times
Reputation: 23
Every man has a right to 100% of their own labor. Anything less that is taken involuntarily is just another form of slavery.

I have no problem with income taxes as long as they are voluntary, so I'm pro-choice. I believe in giving people the choice of having control over their own wallets so for me, keep your hands out of my pocket if I don't want you there.
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